Welcome To Sensitive Stories

Esther Kane 0:00

I would say in my experience, 30 years working with HSPs, I would say 85% of the clients I've worked with, I would not say are clinically depressed or have an anxiety disorder in any shape or form. And I don't think most of them should be medicated.

April Snow 0:24

Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author April Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Esther Kane about the impact of being labeled as moody when you have big feelings, the connection between anxiety, depression, and your sensitive nervous system, and how to leverage your capacity to feel deep joy to break out of the emotional roller coaster you've been on. Esther is a psychotherapist with nearly 30 years of experience who specializes in working with highly sensitive people, nervous system regulation, and emotional healing. She shares trauma-informed, body-based insights on her YouTube channel, providing practical support for those dealing with anxiety, emotional eating, food addiction, and overwhelm. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in a welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to have you here today. Same. I know we were just talking about how much our view of sensitivity overlaps. So I'm really excited about this conversation. But before we dive in, I'm wondering if you could start out by sharing your HSP discovery story, how or when you might have realized that you were highly sensitive.

Finding The HSP Name

Esther Kane 2:20

Well, yeah, I've thought about this question really. It's a great question. And I guess I knew categorically that there was a name for who I was when I was 27. And it's when I read Dr. Elaine Aaron. Oh shout out to Dr. Elaine Aaron. Bless your heart. We love you. And oh my god. So grateful for her. Just the title. Right there. I am overwhelmed by the world. Yes. Yeah. And I want to thrive. So I was 27. So yeah, so I have two degrees in social work. So I did my bachelor's in social work. I was done that when I was 25. And then I went on to my master's, did master's in social work. So I was done all that. And I was a therapist, fully, you know, ink wasn't dry when I was 26. Wow. So I'm 55 now. It's been, yeah, over 30 years of being a therapist. So yeah, I was quite young and a lot had happened. I'd finished my master's degree. I met the love of my life who I'm we just celebrated 25 years of marriage. Congratulations. Seven years together. My husband Nathaniel, who's also an HSP.

April Snow 3:35

Oh, I love that.

Esther Kane 3:36

And uh yeah, so I met him and we were planning a wedding, which I'd never even thought I would do as an HSP. That's a whole other topic. HSPs and weddings. Oh, that's true, actually. Center of attention. Ah, the worst. Oh so hard. I always say it's the best day and worst day of my life because the best day I married the right person. The worst was being the center of attention for and oh dear. So that, and then trying to find work with a fresh MSW, and you know, all I could find was child protection services. I was a child protection social worker, and oh my goodness, and burnt out. Yeah, and then I was just stress upon stress and just not having enough money. And we lived in Vancouver, British Columbia, in Canada, which is I think the most expensive city here, couldn't afford much. And so we bought a condo that was we have people above us, beside us, below us, outside, and for HSPs, and there was no soundproofing whatsoever. And it was a sound nightmare for me, especially. I'm so sensitive to noise. So just on the edge, Bruno. So the typical thing, and this leads into our discussion, is I was diagnosed as having generalized anxiety disorder at the tender age of 27 and put on medication. And so that started nearly 30 years of being on SSRIs and all kinds of other drugs. And I'm finally getting off of the last, yeah, antidepressant now. But yeah, that set me up on this trajectory of thinking that I had an anxiety disorder. And I was doing a lot of soul searching as HSBs tend to do. But basically, I always felt different. And in a way, I guess getting this diagnosis helped me think, okay, well, at least I know what's wrong with me. But you know, to be put on medication, and the doctor said you'll need to be on these things for the rest of your life, and you'll always have this disorder, and it's like a fatal thing, very depressing. And so I made up a list for the audience of all the things I was called growing up. Maybe people can relate. Awkward, I got that one a luck. Snob was a snob, just because I was really shy, I guess, and I didn't just talk to everybody. So people thought I was a snob. Weak, too sensitive, no fun. Oh, that one I got a lot, too serious. And here's one you're folks might need to laugh. I had a teacher in high school who put me outside, everybody kicked me out of class every single day. It was a history class, for guess what the crime was asking too many questions. Oh, yeah. Yes, I was concerned that her version of history was not the real version that I knew about, which I still stand true on that point. Canadian history. So I answered, I was always asked the big questions, you know, why are we here? What's I was like a you know, a baby philosopher. I think I came out of the womb with a furrowed brow, French philosopher. Why? What is the purpose of all this? I was innately curious, always asking questions. I wanted to know everybody and all about them. So I was fascinated with people and their stories. I was called moody a lot because I had big feelings, as your book says on the title. Yeah, big feelings, irritable, and yeah, and I liked one-on-one interactions. I hated parties and loud noises and big groups of people, and I didn't do well in high school that way and university, same thing. People were just partying, and I had my earplugs in by nine o'clock, and I was studying and couldn't understand why people were, you know, being so ridiculous.

April Snow 7:29

Yeah, oh my gosh, I could say all those same things about myself. Like I was a pretty serious kid, and definitely people thought I was snobby or shy, or because I was more reserved and like to observe rather than jump in, and wasn't, I was always called quiet or shy, even though that wasn't totally the truth. I was just taking in my surroundings and I needed more time to settle in and get comfortable. And yeah, there's I was just talking about this with some HSPs today. Like, there's all these labels that get slapped on us, and it does, it's it feels like a lifelong sentence. And same with that diagnoses, like, okay, you are inherently anxious, is what the doctors are telling us, or you're inherently depressed. And we think there's something wrong with us. And so many HSPs have gotten these diagnoses, and sometimes it's true, but often, as I'm sure we'll get in today, there's a lot more to the story going

When Sensitivity Gets Pathologized

April Snow 8:22

on there. So I'm wondering if we could jump down that road and talk about why is anxiety or depression more common for HSPs? Because I know all of us listening have experienced one or the other, or both. We're big feelers.

Esther Kane 8:36

Yes, we feel everything the good, the bad, and the ugly, like all of it. And our nervous systems, the way I describe it sometimes is that my skin is inside out. I feel like sometimes there's no protection. It's just like my skin is inside out and everything sticks to it. And this is confirmed by Dr. Elaine Aaron, of course. And she found that HSPs are more prone to depression and anxiety. There is, you know, we do have higher rates, but that we also have, and we'll talk about this later. This is a bonus part at the end, maybe some factors that make us more resilient to the effects of depression and anxiety. But she says that high sensitivity is often misdiagnosed. These are her words. Misdiagnose is a mental health problem. You go, sister, I love it. I think that is exactly true. I've been a therapist for 30 years now, and I've worked mostly with HSPs. Now I only work with HSPs because I can. I was thinking about this morning. I don't think I've had one HSP client who wasn't diagnosed as depressed or anxious at some time in their life. It's so common. And yes, it is real sometimes. I had major depression twice in the past number of years. It was due to perimenopause going through that change and it came out of it. But, you know, and there are times, yeah, and I get anxious, but do I have a clinical problem? No, I don't think so. So the thing that alarms me is that so many of my clients are put on medication and they aren't given any other options, and they're given these labels. And being in HSP, we tend to feel low about ourselves, anyways, because we are a minority and we don't fit into society the way that we're supposed to, you know, with all the extroverted stuff going on out there and the non-HSP energy there. We already feel bad about ourselves, and then to get this label. Now, I'm not against labels. I know all about the DSM 5 and all that, but I think also on top of this, right now, at this time in this era, I I don't know why, but it seems like people are getting diagnosed left, right, and center. Like everybody's got not only now it's depression and anxiety, but ADHD, autism, you know, all these being on the on the spectrum. And children, my goodness, oh, they're getting five to six labels slapped on them. And I again, I'm not against these diagnoses if it empowers the person. Yeah, if that information is helpful to them and empowers them to, you know, think better of themselves and understand themselves better, and then make changes to their lives that will make it easier for themselves. That I'm not against. But I think we have to be very cautionary and judicious about uh giving out these labels. And I I really see, I would say in my experience of 30 years working with HSPs, I would say 85% of the clients I've worked with, I would not say are clinically depressed or have an anxiety disorder in any shape or form. And I don't think most of them should be medicated.

April Snow 12:08

Oh, same. And you're right. I think every one of my HSB clients has had some diagnoses, has been medicated, and it's not always appropriate. You know, we're very quick to diagnose, and we're definitely overly medicated from a young age, and we're not looking at the whole person, we're not looking at temperament and personality and lifestyle, it's just a quick fix. And then, like like yourself, people spend decades on medication, and you can't really get to the source, me included, right?

Esther Kane 12:39

Exactly. And and let me tell you, people, getting off those, whoa, it's very hard. So easy. There's a whole uh it's another soapbox I have, but yeah, the they're very, very hard to get off, and there's serious withdrawal that most people don't know, and it looks like the thing you were treated for in the first place. Right. The withdrawal looks like anxiety, looks like depression, and then the doctors say, Oh, tried to go off it, came back, better go back on. No, it's withdrawal. So there's a whole lot of good stuff out there. There's a book called Crossing Zero that is all about getting off of anti psychotropic medication safely. Brilliant book by a psychologist in the Netherlands. Yeah, it's excellent.

April Snow 13:22

Yeah, I'll make sure I include that in the show notes for folks that are interested.

Esther Kane 13:25

Yeah, yeah.

April Snow 13:26

Yeah, it's that's the trouble when you're highly sensitive. You know, overstimulation looks like anxiety, or chronic stress and burnout looks like depression, right? There's a lot of tricky ways that we I mean, our body only has so many ways to express itself. Yeah, so sometimes it looks like chronic anxiety when there's something else going on that you could remedy. I mean, I've seen clients depression lift quickly when they made um a lifestyle change. They made a change at work. Yes, it's miraculous within days or weeks, all of a sudden all the symptoms are gone. So that's why I do a lot of nervous system work and lifestyle focus, and you know, a lot of looking at narratives and these labels have been slapped on because we really do need to look a little closer. Some I just want to give you a funny April.

Esther Kane 14:15

I tend to use humor a lot. And by the way, HSPs are very funny. Yeah, I did I did a video on that. Just people don't they don't get our humor, but boy, we are very funny. But my idea of a great holiday, and this is two holidays I can think of. My husband and I love Hawaii, so we'll go to Hawaii. One year I read two books about the dying process and death and dying, and that's just my jam. And then the last Hawaiian holiday we had, I read all about trauma and yes, the causes. That's how I roll. I mean, I'm I know that's not how most people spend their day on the beach when they're on tropical vacation, but for me, it's HSP, it's on point for us, isn't it? Oh, yeah, purpose meaning, the deeper meaning, the whys I'm fascinated by these things. It's most of your listeners, maybe too.

April Snow 15:06

Oh, absolutely. We go deep, and that's me too. I'm always bringing some nonfiction book where you know, even before I was a I sometimes think, oh, it's because I'm a therapist, but even before that, I would bring my books with my highlighters and my notepad, and I just go, you know, go deep into it because yeah, we are we're curious, we're introspective, we want to, you know, ask those bigger, deeper questions. We're very existential in that way. I love when you said, like, oh, I was a little philosopher, and I was like, same.

Esther Kane 15:36

I was I knew I wanted to be a therapist if we went with eight years old. Did you really? Eight years old. I always knew because I saw Lucy, you know, Lucy Charlie Brown.

April Snow 15:48

Oh, Lucy, oh, from Charlie Brown, yes, yes, yes.

Esther Kane 15:50

Psychiatrist is in, she had that level. That's me. Lucy, I'm sure it was an HSP. Oh, it sounds like it, yeah. Very serious, right? Yes, I always wondered, and everybody told me their problems from when I was five. I got as far back as I could remember, I was helping people with their problems. So I thought they paid for this.

April Snow 16:11

Exactly. Oh, I love that. I don't think I was definitely the same way in that people opened up to me, and they still do. You know, I'm on an airplane, I'm talking to the service worker for my internet, and they're telling me their family story. You gotta be careful. That's boundaries, right? Yeah, exactly. There's just something about us.

Esther Kane 16:30

Your husband just says, Don't tell them what you do for them.

April Snow 16:33

I know because it's true. I've told that to like taxi drivers and things, and then you can't walk a battery.

Esther Kane 16:38

Be careful, yeah.

April Snow 16:39

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, that's

The Hidden Strengths Of Sensitivity

April Snow 16:43

so funny. But yeah, we are we're deep thinkers. So, you know, speaking of our sensitivity, and I'm wondering what is it about sensitivity that can actually bolster us during times of anxiety or when we're feeling depressed or just low mood, because it's not all bad, right?

Esther Kane 16:59

No, no, no. We are incredibly strong, and that's the thing, like when people used to call me weak or you know, fragile as another word. I bet you guys can relate to people listening, right? You're so fragile. No, we're not. We're strong, we are strong people. The things that HSPs endure and come through, and I think it's part of what makes us so resilient is we're looking for the higher meaning of things. We want to know the why. And for me, and I'm guessing a lot of your listeners too feel this way. If I know the why of my suffering, I can handle anything. If there's a higher purpose to it, if there's some kind of you know, spiritual meaning, uh growth lesson is usually growth, right? I'm all about growth and evolving and becoming the best version of myself possible. And I don't think as long as you're breathing, I believe we should all be on that quest, right? So I think that makes us very resilient. And and also, yeah, Aline Aaron says that we're okay. What was it called again? Differential the differential susceptibility, yeah. Differential susceptibility, yeah. The HSPs were also able to enjoy the good things more than non-HSPs. Listen to that one, let's double-click on that. That is an amazing thing, isn't it? That our joy is more joy than non-sensitive people's joy, like it's bigger, it's wider. So that's why I work so much with the body somatically, because we feel everything our bodies tell us before it's in our head, right? It's always in the body, and I think we're so quick to pivot as well when we realize okay, I have this sensation, my body, my stomach's churning. What might that mean? Oh, I think I'm you know worried about this test or whatever. Okay, then you can make a plan to deal with the fear around the test, and then you calm down. Like I think we arrived to the solution a lot faster, and we're very intuitive. And we also catch things. This is what I've seen over and over again with my clients is you know, terrible illnesses and stuff. I would hazard a guess that we catch those things faster than non-HSPs because we're so tuned into the body.

April Snow 19:20

Absolutely right. When you can sense the subtle, notice the little nuance of the sensation or the shift in your body, yeah, you catch it sooner.

Esther Kane 19:29

Yeah, yeah. And I think we also coming back to the point of you know being spiritual, looking for meaning and purpose. I don't want to, it's not like a comparison thing. It's not like HSPs are better than non-HSPs, but the way I see it and what I say to a lot of my clients is like we do our best when we're on a higher vibrational frequency. And what we're trying to do all the time to fit in is to go down quite a few notches to be on a different frequency to fit in. But that makes us sick. That I think would contribute to depression and anxiety because it's not genuine to who we are, and that state is also called flow. You know, I would say the higher vibrational frequency. And we do best when we're in the flow, when we're creating, right? When we're doing these things like what we're doing right now. It's just my whole being is just I just feel like, you know, I'm a million stars in my body, and I'm just a it's a lovely sensation, right? And we can really tune into that, but we need to tell all my clients we need to try and hang out there as much as we can and stop diving down all the time, trying to relate to everybody or be relatable or fit in or be like everybody else. You aren't like everybody else, so just give it up. I mean, I joke about it and I say, if you're gonna be different, let your freak flag fly, just be your HSP self, your wild, wonderful HSP self, and live it to the fullest and become your greatest self, right? And when people give themselves permission to do that, I'm sure you see it all the time because I know how I found you April was years ago when you were working with HSTs, you saved my career. I mean, your stuff and I didn't even pay to be part of your program. Sorry about that. But no, but just the stuff you were giving out, there was brilliant information. How to manage your energy as a HST and all that stuff. Like we have different needs and requirements. We need more rest, we need a lot more alone time, we need quiet, we need to restore ourselves, we need more sleep, you know, we need less stimulation. So we can't, you know. I say to a lot of my clients, like, you probably can't work five days a week. It's not for most HSPs, that's not gonna be sustainable, right? So we have to make lifestyle adjustments to that. But yeah, coming back in a very security way to the question, I think, yeah, we tend to hang out on this higher vibrational frequency. And that's when we do our best work. And that I think leads to resiliency because when we're at that level, we are on fire, right? We're working at our best, and we'll come to this in a second, but In terms of Deb Dana's ladder, yeah, right? Polyvagal ladder. Yeah, we're in the ventrovagal state, I think, the most when we're, yeah. But we have a lot of strengths.

April Snow 22:12

We really do. And you're right that we have to step out of trying to mold to the non-HSP just level. You know, we need to cut the noise because we are the observers, we're the intuitives, we're the emotional leaders. We're not meant to be the ones out on the front lines, living a busy lifestyle, taking those risks. We're meant to hang back. We're meant to teach and you know, support and create. So if we can really step into that role, embrace it, the gifts of sensitivity start to flow through and the hardships start to soften, right? I like the word soften. Yeah, yeah. Not like they go away completely because we're humans, but they do soften quite a bit. And we do need to live in a very different way than non-HSPs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Esther Kane 23:06

Yeah.

April Snow 23:06

So can we talk about how do we start to, you know, what are some maybe practices or approaches that we can manage our mood and our intense emotions and step into more of those strengths that we talked about.

Esther Kane 23:20

So first of all, I'd like to combine, and I wrote this for a book I was working on about how to regulate yourself as a highly sensitive

Window Of Tolerance Basics

Esther Kane 23:29

person. So what I see, the bottom line is that HSPs, our nervous systems are constantly getting dysregulated on the regular word up, down, or so we have this thing. So this is I'm going to combine polyvagal theory, um, which Stephen Porgis came up with, couldn't understand that. So then Deb Dana, bless her. She's like us psychotherapist, made it easier for us to understand, right? And broke it down. So I combine also Dan Siegel's window of tolerance. So we have a window of tolerance. So just picture a window. And when we're in that, so polyvagal language would say we're in the ventral vagal state when we're in the window. And that's when we're calm, we're happy, we're peaceful, we do our best work, we're relaxed. And yeah, and then so out of the window, we have hypoarousal is below the window. So that's the shutdown freeze response, dorsal vagal shutdown in polyvagal terms. So then on Deb Dana's polyvagal ladder, that's the dorsal vagal shutdown. And then the hypoarousal at the top above the window is the sympathetic state, is the fight or flight response, and that's fear fueled, right? So what I see for HSPs is that we're either below or above, you know, and then we come back to the middle, something happens, we're back up or down, right? So for me, as a therapist that works somatically mostly with HSPs, it's all about teaching HSPs how to stay in the window of tolerance, right, or in the ventral vagal state as much as possible. So HSPs, what leads us to hyper-arousal, which is the you know, sympathetic fight or flight, is that we get overstimulated and overwhelmed. That's really, and if we stay there too long, we get a bit stuck. And also we worry a lot, we tend to be warriors. Now, W O R R I, but I want to say warriors that we turn into. Oh, into warriors. I think it is. Yes. So we worry, and when we get the hypoarousal, that is the freeze response, or what's often called depression. That is because we see the world, all you gotta do, people is look around right now. And oh, please. I hope the audience is not doing too much of that right now. Oh my goodness, it's bad, and yeah, so bad. The world has gone mad, and I really that's why I love your book, April. I know we're gonna talk about that another time, but it's you know, the self-care around that is so important. So, yeah, we can easily get overwhelmed and depressed by the state of the world and what's going on around us, and we we care, we care so much, our hearts are so big, and we care and we want everyone to be happy and safe and well and cared for, and justice is so important to us. So when we don't see that, that's heartbreaking. And you know, I can think of so many clients, but there's just one young man I'm working with who just you know sometimes says, I don't know why I get out of bed in the morning. Like he's just watching the news. So we talked about self-care around how much you ingest of that stuff, right? Yeah, and focusing on what

Self-Compassion That Calms The Body

Esther Kane 26:57

we can change. So I combine, I have sort of a two-prong approach that I use to help HSPs regulate their nervous system, and that is combining self-compassion. Kristen Neff, shout out to you. I see her book behind your head.

April Snow 27:12

Yes, I love her so much.

Esther Kane 27:14

When that book came out, amazing. I love Kristen Neff and then Tara Brock, you know, radicals. So good. Oh, yeah, and the rain technique, and then Kristen Neff has the self-compassion break, which is so simple. One of my favorites, yeah, yeah, yeah. So acknowledge your own suffering, acknowledge it. All these people around the world are suffering from the same thing we all suffer, and then what can I do to nurture my own suffering and heal myself? So, and the other thing, if I didn't mention HSPs, they are so hard on themselves, so self-critical. That's why the self-compassion piece is essential. We are so mean to ourselves. Oh my goodness, if there's one thing, if I had a superpower, if there's one thing I could take away from my HSPs, it would be the hammer they use to hit themselves on the head with every day. Yeah, yeah. Take that away. Oh my goodness.

April Snow 28:13

We're so tough on ourselves. I mean, we've we've internalized a lot of the criticisms we've heard, yes, and the pressure to be different.

Esther Kane 28:20

Yeah, yeah, there's something wrong with us. So I was gonna say this later, but I'm gonna say it now, and it's something say on all my videos and hear me when I say HSPs, okay, ears open. There is nothing wrong with you. Nothing, you are wow, perfect, divinely made, fantastic, wonderful. You have superpowers, but we need to learn to regulate the nervous system to function at our best and to stay up there in the high vibrational frequency and the flow. So, research shows for the self-compassion piece that self-compassion calms the nervous system, puts us in the ventrovagal state. There's hard science behind this self-compassion. So, here's the bottom line: you got to be nice to yourselves. Even if you say, and I can hear you already, it's so hard. No, how do you do it? I don't want to do it. I've tried, I've tried all these things, and it doesn't work. It's a practice. Yeah, practices are different than techniques, and self-compassion practice comes from Buddhism, which I'm trying to be. I call myself a Jubu, I'm Jewish and Buddhist or Bhuju, whatever you want to call it. But it's hard to be a Buddhist. Oh my goodness, I find that really difficult. But the self-compassion piece we have from Buddhism, thank you, Buddhism, and all the beautiful people that teach that. Yeah, it calms the nervous system and it puts us in the ventrovagal state. So if you look at the Dalai Lama, there's a beautiful story. I don't know if you've heard this, but I think it was Sharon Salzburg, wonderful. Oh, I love her. I think she she was hosting the Dalai Lama. This was many years ago, and he had an interpreter. And someone in the audience asked the question, What do you do if you hate yourself? How do you stop hating yourself? And the translator couldn't translate that because they didn't have the words in his language in Tibetan to describe it. Doesn't exist, but so the Dalai Lama was flummoxed to put it mildly. He didn't he just couldn't understand how you could hate yourself. Wow, how do you do that? So isn't that lovely? Yeah, and look at him that man has not had an easy life. But what do you see most when you see the Dalai Lama? What's he doing?

April Snow 30:44

I mean, he's gentle and kind, and it's laughing. And he's laughing, yeah. It's always there's a brightness, smile, laughing.

Esther Kane 30:52

Yeah, I mean incredible. Yeah, so self-compassion is so important. And so I'm always doing this because I've been the recipient, blessedly, of a very talented somatic, experiencing practitioner. She's not even a therapist clinically, you know, technically, but she's the best therapist I've ever seen. The body stuff, you know, self-compassion. So I learned I do this reflexively now. Whenever the dentist, you know, anytime I'm feeling nervous or scared or being mean to myself, I say to people, my clients, that I can't put my hands over my heart. So right now, if you can't see this, my hands are over my heart and be mean to myself at the same time. I urge you to try this example.

April Snow 31:36

That's so true. Because yeah, whenever I'm doing this, it's always in a like a gentle, comforting embrace of myself. Yeah.

Esther Kane 31:44

And this calms the nervousism. So if we look at polyvagal theory, you know, the vagus nerve runs from just yeah, neck down, just under the ribs, right? So that's sort of the heart of it right here. Literally, your heart, the biggest part of the vagus nerve is covered there. There. The two hands. So that's the one you can take away right from this conversation and try out. So let's talk about somatic exercises to decrease low moods.

Grounding And Shaking For Low Mood

Esther Kane 32:14

I like to call them low moods because low moods can be a scale, they can be raised, right? It's not just depression, oh, depression just makes you depressed.

April Snow 32:23

I mean, the word right, right, and you're not stuck there, it's just like, yeah, it's a scale, it's it's like the ladder, the polyvagal ladder.

Esther Kane 32:31

Yeah, we talk about things on a continuum, on a spectrum these days, right? It's really so so mood can be that as well, especially for HSPs. Oh my god. Oh, thing I loved in your book. I just have to say, you said that you got in trouble. Someone reported you a supervisor when you worked in health care because you were too enthusiastic.

April Snow 32:49

Yes, my goodness, ridiculous to say out loud, but it stuck with me.

Esther Kane 32:56

Yeah, yeah, I get excited about things, but that's and I have been accused of that. Of my mother, you're too happy, you're too wow, too happy. I wish. I mean, yeah, that's but that's the thing about HSVs, we can get excited. So for low moods, you know, when we're a little bit in that frozen shutdown state, I'll give you three things you can try. So one is basic grounding, and folks probably know about this stuff already. And if you've ever done a yoga class and they say, imagine yourself as a tree standing on the ground, and the roots are coming from your feet, going into the earth. I do that one with clients of the standing, so standing up just that really helps ground you, just to be standing, yeah, and then picturing the roots from your feet going into the ground can be very, very helpful. And then the mountain meditation is my other fave. A mountain, how many tons of rock is in a mountain, right? So you just imagine yourself, you know, as a big mountain, and you're sturdy, you're not going anywhere, and the seasons go around you and on you, and you know, the critters are flying all over, but the mountain solid, right? Calm rock, you know. Have you ever laid on a mountain or on a big rock? Isn't that so good? It's so good, or the tree hugged a tree.

April Snow 34:22

Yes, it's just there's a solidity there, it's so calming, yeah, yeah.

Esther Kane 34:27

So these are things you can do, but you can also hug a tree or lie on a mountain or a big rock. I recommend that. And then the other one is I'm sure everybody knows about this, waking up the body by shaking. So we know now that a lot of trauma somatic-based trauma therapies they teach you to shake. Yeah, and this is a universal, I think it's been used for in every indigenous culture around the world is shaking, dancing, singing, using your voice, all of this stimulates the vagus nerve in a really good way.

April Snow 34:57

So I don't think people realize the piece about shaking. I mean, I know it and you know it because we're kind of in this world, but yeah, a lot of people don't realize how important that is to work through stress, and animals do it naturally, yes, exactly.

Esther Kane 35:10

Yeah, yeah. So letting it happen. Cats, one of them, I we'd say he had the bonks. It was like about eight o'clock every night. He just ran around the house like a crazy, you know. It's it's energy. So when you're depressed, it's not that there's not energy. In fact, there's a lot of energy and it needs to come up and out. So I'm very big on dance breaks. I have them every day, at least twice a day. I get a great song on and I dance around my office and just let go. It's so good. And the shaking. So I have a rebounder at home. I don't know if people have access to those, but a little trampoline thing, you know, jumping, and just it can be very light. And if you're really low, you can just sway side to side. Just any movement, just getting the body moving is going to orient you towards more pleasure, and that's the goal of somatic experiencing. They talk about orienting towards pleasure, which I love, right? How often do HSPs naturally think of orienting towards pleasure? I hope a lot of you are saying, I do, I do, but I tend to focus on the negative.

April Snow 36:22

I don't know, but yeah, it's more how we're right. We have that negativity bias, but I think HSP is even more strongly because we're aware of what could go wrong. Yes. We want to prevent it and take care of people.

Esther Kane 36:32

Yes.

April Snow 36:32

But yeah, if we could teach ourselves to reorient towards joy and pleasure and what we're grateful for, that could have a profound impact.

Esther Kane 36:40

Yeah. And the last one comes from Deb Dana, who I love. I have so many of her books in my office, is to feel that we're not alone because that shut down state, frozen state, we often feel like we're all alone in the world, we're isolating. So feeling cared for and connected. So a somatic exercise is the face-to-heart technique, and that is literally putting one hand over your heart and one on one side of your face. Oh, just try this. It's so lovely. And this engages the social engagement system, which is our connection to others. All mammals have this, all mammals have the social engagement system, and it's a beautiful thing.

Speedy Energy And Mindful Walking

Esther Kane 37:24

And then I will go into anxiety, or okay, I like to call it speedy energy. I don't like the word anxiety, I don't even know what it means, but and I'm gonna pronounce his name wrong. It's from a book, Why We Meditate, by Daniel Goleman, who wrote Emotional Intelligence with a Tibetan monk. His last name is Rinpoche, but I think monks get called Rinpoche a lot. And so his first name is T-S-O-K-N-Y-I. And oh, I love this book. And I first listened to it, I love audiobooks, I think as a lot of HSPs do, and it made me laugh. And he talked about all these wonderful techniques that you could use from Buddhism and mindfulness. So he called it speedy energy, and I love that again because that's on a continuum, you know, it can be really, really fast, or it can be medium, you know, just brisk, or it can be really slow, right? Anywhere in between. And he said, I love this. He said that we often go past our own personal speed limits. Oh, isn't that a nice thing? Yeah, so we go past our personal speed limit. So, and I do that a lot, like I can feel it now because I'm excited. So, my somatic practitioner she says to me, and we're speeding up again because I start to talk really fast. And she says, Okay, let's get back into the body, slow down. So, I'm really learning to regulate my nervous system with speech. But one beautiful practice is mindful walking from take not. Oh, take not beautiful. Yes, uh famous Vietnamese Buddhist monk who yeah created this moving meditation. He said, and I love these words, that every time uh my foot touches the ground, I'm kissing the earth with my feet. And then kissing the earth with my feet. And I do this, so when I get the speedy energy and I'm zipping around in my head or talking too fast, I go outside or stay inside if it's really yucky up, mindful walking, and I go so slowly. So I was taught I took a course in mindfulness practices, and the teacher said that you say, and this comes from Take N, you put one foot on the ground and you say, I have arrived, and then you put the next foot on the ground, I am home. And I believe home is referring to the body. I have arrived in the body, I am home in the body, yeah. And that one, if you folks haven't tried the mindful walking, it is a beautiful practice. Now I shall give you a warning that in my neighborhood everybody knows me, and I've been asked if I was okay a few times because I was walking so slowly, right? Yes, I just and I literally stop and smell the flowers. So, what you want to do when you're walking, doing the mindful walking is notice the smells, all the senses, sights, smells, tastes. Oh, and when it's spring, like it is right now. Oh, isn't it beautiful? That's the best. April, what are some things you're smelling and noticing that are growing?

April Snow 40:40

Well, right now there's been California poppies popping up organically on the hillside where I live, which I just find so delightful. And what else do we have? Oh my god, we have so many flowers here, roses in every color imaginable, all along the sidewalks. Gosh, daisies and sunflowers, and I mean, everything really. Lots of succulents, which are starting to bloom a little bit. I mean, I'm a little bit well, I feel grateful because we always have sunflowers out in California all year round. But now it's in abundance and it's been nice and warm. Beautiful. They just look like they're smiling, don't they? They do. And I also love to stop and just take them in and look at the bees. And there's been lots of dragonflies around my house lately. Oh, I love dragonflies, which I just love so much. So yeah, it's been lovely to be outside.

Esther Kane 41:33

Yeah, and noticing the animals and the people and yes in the sky. And I live in Victoria, BC, and this oh, the sky at certain times of year. This I live two blocks from the ocean. I just walked together. I'm so lucky, and I go down there and just look at the sun over the water, and then we see Mount Washington across the way in snow capped mountain.

April Snow 41:56

I was just in upstate Washington, and yeah, we could see the snow, and the sunsets are incredible there. Yeah, so I guess that's getting a little closer to where you are. And I'm in California, which is beautiful, but this just was breathtaking.

Esther Kane 42:11

Yeah, oh yeah, incredible. Yeah, no, it's gorgeous. Okay, so bring you to another practice for those of you who haven't fallen asleep. No, I know you're staying with us. This stuff is juicy for us. So hands on heart and body. So this comes from Peter Levine. Love you, Peter Levine. He's still going strong. He just wrote his, I don't know, 15th book in his touring. 83 or 84 touring the or just oh, he's amazing. So he created somatic experiencing. So hands on the body, so you can place it. He's got all these different positions. If I'm thinking thinky too much, this one's great for HSPs. One hand on the forehead, one hand on the heart. Do that for 10 minutes, things get better.

April Snow 42:53

One of my favorites, yeah.

Esther Kane 42:55

And my favorite though is hand on the belly, hand on the heart. And that one is very, very regulating. It tells your nervous system that you're safe and that you can relax and be at ease. And yeah, these are just not even hourly, every 15 minutes. I just do these things reflexively now.

April Snow 43:15

Same. I just will organically find myself swaying or putting a hand for comfort. Yeah.

Esther Kane 43:21

Yeah. So, folks out there, I encourage you to learn about somatic experiencing, somatic therapies. They're just wonderful for HSPs.

Orienting To Safety And Comfort

Esther Kane 43:30

And the last one on that score is orienting towards safety again from somatic experiencing Peter Levine. And this is checking in on the three levels. And it also talks about that wonderful monk in the book, Why We Meditate, talks about it. The three levels he says it's like three floors of a house. And you guys are gonna laugh if you're American. House, house, house. Can you say it differently? And about that's our other word you guys laugh. So orienting towards safety, you check. With the body, so the feelings. What is the felt sense? So, what am I feeling? And then what are the thoughts? And if you're in the anxiety or speedy energy, you probably have some fear-based thoughts. Oh my god, I'm in danger, and something terrible is gonna happen. You're predicting the worst. We are great storytellers, aren't we? April. We are the stories that HSPs can come up with of things that could go wrong that never do go wrong. We should have, I mean, we should be novelists, they're amazing. They're so rich.

April Snow 44:33

We could write some some dramas and some horror stories, that's for sure.

Esther Kane 44:37

And you can tell I use laughter and humor a lot. That's also incredibly regulating for the nervous system. So good for HSPs. And we're funny creatures, so we should use that skill. So we check them with the feelings, the thoughts, and our impulses. Like, what do I want to do? We I find a lot of HSPs usually want to save people or save others. That's a big impulse for a lot of us, isn't it? Big one, yes. Yeah, or fix it.

April Snow 45:05

Yes, yep, fix or caretake.

Esther Kane 45:07

Yeah, yeah, gotta make it better. So noticing the whole idea is so I'll give you more of a skill here. So you look around the room slowly. So this one, just looking around, this is also called orienting, and you can go up and around in a circle, down, and what this does is it takes you out of the state of you know, dread where your nervous system thinks saber-toothed tiger is gonna come eat you, right? So it tells your body you're safe. All you gotta do is look around, side to side, up and down. That's a really good one. And name what you see, smell, hear, taste, you know, the five senses again. Focus on what makes you feel safe and comfortable. That's another thing, is I do this with my clients at first, you know, when they come into the office, is what would make you feel more comfortable. So I have blankets, I have pillows, I have, you know, do you want a pillow behind your back? Do you want one? Do you want two? Like really knowing, getting to know what makes us feel good, what gives us comfort. And I notice a lot of HSPs are really skilled at not taking care of their needs. Like I can see they're cold, they're shivering. And I say, Do you want a blanket? Oh no, I'm fine. No, you're not fine, you're shivering.

April Snow 46:25

Exactly. Or we're so used to being told you don't need that, it's not a big deal. So I think we've learned to just make ourselves and our needs small. So I love that you're doing that in session of like, no, let's take care of you. Yeah.

Esther Kane 46:38

And I offer tea, I offer water, and you know, and hand lotion. I just love like all these sensory things, right? And also have essential oils, and oh, it just means they guess to the scent, they know exactly what blend, they're amazing. Spidey senses. So focus on what makes you feel safe and comfortable. And then after a few minutes, check in again and see how you're feeling. Do you feel more grounded, calm, connected to your body? Those are yeah, those are some practices.

April Snow 47:08

I love that. Yeah, it's a good idea just to make that a habit. Like you said, you know, after a while, these things become second nature. But in the beginning, we need to really lean into making it part of our routine and just learning how to check in and what that looks like. And yeah, thank you for all those specific practices because a lot of times we don't know how to do it, we don't know what we need or what we can offer ourselves. So yeah, I really appreciate that, Esther.

Nothing Is Wrong With You

April Snow 47:35

And as we start to wrap up, I'm wondering if there's any last thoughts or a final message you want to share with listeners. I know you shared a little note of encouragement before, and maybe you want to revisit that or share something else.

Esther Kane 47:49

Yeah, so one message is who are struggling, HSPs, those of you out there who are struggling to regulate their mood. Okay, I said already, but I'm gonna say it again because you guys might have forgotten it. There is nothing wrong with you, there never has been anything wrong with you. You have been misunderstood, you are a highly sensitive person, which is a beautiful thing, and you have superpowers, and you have big feelings and both positive and negative, but you can learn to work with your nervous system to find balance, and it's a very learnable skill, as I presented here today. These somatic practices, very simple, and HSPs again, this comes from Elaine, Aaron, are hardwired to feel pleasant emotions. So I would encourage you to orient towards pleasure and even more so joy. I like joy, and that's in your title of your book. Yeah, joy. And even though you sometimes feel low or overwhelmed, remember that you have an amazing ability to feel your emotions, especially things like empathy, awe, and joy. And those are beautiful things, and you're creators, and you have a secret sauce and a magic. And you know the thing I love about HSPs, and after working with so many and having a YouTube channel that focuses on HSPs, we are so different, aren't we? Yes, we really are. We come in so many flavors, don't we? Yeah, and then there's this whole what I recently learned is the HSS, the high sensation seeker. Do you know 50% of HSPs are high sensation seekers? I know it's more than you would think. Yeah, yeah, that blew me out of the water. Yeah, and we have such divergent, and then there's the extroverted HSPs, which 30% of us, 70% we're introverts, but 30% are extroverts. Whoa, those folks are different, aren't they? Very different in a fantastic way. My one of my best friends is an extroverted HSP. Yeah, and just be kind to yourselves, fall in love with yourself. Really, that's my message.

April Snow 50:12

Really because you are so fantastic. Thank you, Esther. I'm glad that you shared that message and elaborated on it because we need to hear that as much as possible, that we're okay just as we are, we don't need to change ourselves. There are actually a lot of strengths about having this trait and that we can soak up the joy so much more than other people. And like, it's what a gift. It's an incredible gift that we have. So I will make sure, thank you for sharing all these incredible resources.

Working With Esther And Resources

April Snow 50:40

I'll link everything in the show notes along with your website, your newsletter, and your YouTube channel. If anyone is in the British Columbia area who's local to you and would like to work with you, could you share a few thoughts about what that looks like?

Esther Kane 50:54

Yeah, so I am taking new clients. I'm very selective. It's HSPs only. And that was a decision I made just a couple years ago. And it feels so right. And um, these to my people. I'm the same way, yeah. Yeah, you folks are amazing. So if you're highly sensitive, I also have Elaine Aaron's part of her test on my website. If you're not sure, my website is just my name, it's E-S-T-H-E-R-K-A-N-E.com. And you can find me there. And then yeah, my YouTube channel is called Thriving as a Highly Sensitive Person, and the handle is at thrivingHSP. Perfect. That's easy.

April Snow 51:38

Well, Esther, thank you again so much. This was it was a joy to connect with you, and I'm looking forward to our next conversation.

Esther Kane 51:45

Yes, it was so wonderful, April. Thank you.

April Snow 51:48

Thank you.

Key Takeaways And Closing

April Snow 51:54

Thanks so much for joining me and Esther for today's conversation. What I hope you remember is that your big feelings are a gift and that you're not doomed to feel anxious or depressed forever. You can start with small gestures of self-compassion to shift your mood and regulate your nervous system. If you'd like to work with or stay connected with Esther, you can go to EsterKane.com or head to the show notes to find links for all the resources mentioned in today's episode. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated. Check out the show notes or head to sensitivestories.com to find all the resources and the transcript from today's episode. Thanks for listening.