Tiny Changes With Big Impact

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 0:00

Don't realize, but it's the little tiny changes that can make such a profound impact on our life, right? So, but we have to create that foundation first. So, we've been talking about the physiological impact that clutter has to still, and it's also a way to create new mental space and clarity.

April Snow 0:26

Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author April Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Rebecca Joe Rushdie about the emotional and physical impacts of tidying up and decluttering for sensitive people, what happens when you live more intentionally and meaningfully in your home, life, and relationships, and the power of making little changes. Rebecca guides sensitive souls on transformational journeys by decluttering their homes, hearts, and minds in the sanctuaries that spark joy and flow. Rebecca also facilitates wellness workshops and speaks for corporations, government agencies, and NGOs on the power of decluttering our personal and professional lives so that we can be more focused, effective, and happy in whatever we do. Rebecca has lived and worked all over the world. She was the first Platinum Kanmari consultant in Malaysia and Scotland, where she's currently based with her husband, and two wonderfully sensitive daughters. For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths, or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestories.com. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment

HSP Discovery And Shopping To Cope

April Snow 2:06

with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in a Welcome Rebecca. I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much, April. I am so delighted. And thank you so much for responding to my request as well. Absolutely. As soon as it came through, I was like, absolutely yes. We have to talk about the decluttering as HSP, it is so important. And I'm excited to dive into some of the layers. But before we do that, I always like to start off with hearing what your HSP discovery story is. How or when you realize that you're highly sensitive? Oh, yeah.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 2:58

I mean, when I discovered that I was an HSP, I would say is it was only just a couple years ago, like that this terminology just came into my world. You know, Dr. Elaine Aaron's work as well. But I've always known that I was sensitive, but not in a way that was empowering. You know, as a child, I was always told that you're too sensitive, you can't take a joke, you know, you cry too much. All the things that were like, okay, I just have to like shove it under. And I ended up using my strength and my superpower as a way to disempower myself, like being able to read the rooms, especially as a young child, but then it was more developed as the fear-based people-pleasing tendencies.

April Snow 3:41

I'm sure that comes up a lot in your work. Absolutely, it does. Yeah. And a lot of what you're saying resonates, you know, this feeling of I knew I was sensitive, but it definitely wasn't a positive. And needing to work through that. Yeah.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 3:56

Feeling like I'm never enough. Right. So for me, this actually weaves in really nicely with what we're talking about today because I lived in mega cities my entire life, and which meant that I was basically living in a giant shopping mall. And so I started my coping mechanism was shopping. I was consuming to try to fill a void of not feeling enough. And I started independently shopping since I was eight years old. Oh, you would shop on your own that young. Yeah, because you know, I lived in cities where we had a lot of freedom, it was like very safe as well. But it meant that, like, you know, you're at a bus stop, and then there's also like tons of shops next to you. So it wasn't just waiting for the bus. It was like, oh, you're always constantly shopping. You were exposed to it. And it's just also the bombardment of advertisement, right? And because of a child, I was left to my own devices a lot. So back then nowadays it would be smartphones, right? Like devices, literal devices. But back then it was magazines, you know. So I was exposed to a lot of magazines. And so I didn't get the best, I wasn't directed in the best way possible with the best influences. So in my mind, I was bombarded with the media's notion of like, oh, you will be happy if you have X, Y, and Z or if you follow these trends. So I just kept shopping and shopping and shopping. So, but having said that, I grew up in a very tidy household because both my parents have a lot of Japanese influences behind them. So it wasn't that it was cluttered, but my internal world was very cluttered. And it wasn't until you know I read Marikondo's book that I realized I was like, oh, I've been tidying wrong my entire life. So this is why, and and I'm a reformed shopaholic now. So if this resonates with any audience members, with like, you know, stress shopping, being in debt, all that kind of stuff, then I'm really excited to like dive in further on that too. So that's my HSP story. I realized that a couple of years ago, that is actually a strength. And I actually have two HSP daughters who are eight and 10 years old. So this has been a tremendous part of my healing journey because I realize I can reparent myself by giving them the tools that I wish I had growing up so that they're also able to recognize that a sensitivity is a strength. You can take ownership of what joy means to you. You don't have to follow the crowds or the masses. And a huge part of that learning is actually they've been comaring, they've been doing this decluttering method since they were two years old.

April Snow 6:38

Wow. So you started them off early. I love that.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 6:42

Guinea pigs, April. Let's see if this works on them too. But it's been magnificent. And this is also why, like, I've also evolved my business. I think I'm actually on my five-year anniversary of being certified as a consultant. So, what that means is I'm certified under Mari Kondo's method. Right. I read her book over a decade ago and then actually dived into this work about five years ago. And yeah, over the last couple of years, I realized I was like, you know, again, removing that fear. Like this whole process is not about just decluttering or physical, but it's also about letting go in a healthy way of thoughts and beliefs that don't serve us. So a couple of years ago, I decided I was like, you know, I think I'm gonna have that courage to shift and serve who sparks the most joy for me, which is the HSP community.

April Snow 7:31

Yes, I love that. You're giving back because just your experience of you grew up in a tidy home, you said, but your outside world was not tidy. There was a lot of stimulation and expectation to fit into the shopping culture that we all get pulled into, right? But realizing what success looks like. Exactly, what success looks like, right? Exactly. And so you're hitting hinting to me that there's decluttering possible on so many different levels. And so I wanted, I saw on your website you talk about the impacts physically, emotionally, spiritually, even around working or living in clutter. So I wonder

Clutter Stress And Sleep Hygiene

April Snow 8:12

if you could speak more to that. Cause that was really intriguing to me because I'm someone who's very impacted by clutter. I need a clean space and I love to tidy and I love to get rid of things. Because it just it for me, it's mental, like peace of mind or mental clarity when I'm decluttering. So I'm I'm curious about those other layers if you could speak to it.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 8:32

You know, like just on the practical note, what happens to us physiologically when we look at clutter is it will activate your cortisol levels. So I didn't know that a lot of people don't know this. And like I actually do a lot of workshops, like corporate workshops as well. And there's a lot of stressors in life, right? Like, as you know, as we all know, you can't control the traffic, you can't control the inbox. But I want to say, like, this is something that is within our power, having a space that supports us, that can nourish us, that can charge us up so that we can face whatever that's gonna come our way. Yeah, and also I like to compare it to, you know, we're so mindful to charge all of our devices, you know, just so think of your home as your charging port. So that's where your bedroom, I know that you have a lot of sleep resources on your website as well. Your bedroom is a sanctuary, your bedroom charges you up. So it's like there's sleep and there's good sleep. So I'm actually pretty obsessed with sleep hygiene as well, you know. So this is like all part of it. Like I always say to people in my workshop, I'm like, you know, if you're not ready to declutter, the one tip that I will give you is it takes 10 seconds to do and you will gain back so much energy. Take your charger out of the bedroom if you have one in there. Take the device out, right? Because I find that this is actually a pivotal part of the equation. I meet so many people who want to, they have the desire to, you know, to declutter or get on track with their health, fitness, whatever it is. But what's holding them back? They're like, got no time, got no energy. I'm like, you know, this 10-second hack is going to change your life. You're gonna be able to expand your energy field because this is the issue, it's too tempting right now. Yes, the last thing that you see, the blue light's gonna impact your sleep. That's the first thing that you see, right?

April Snow 10:32

Yeah, yeah, just thinking about that. We've talked so much about physical clutter, but we're welcoming in so much mental clutter with our phones, our devices.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 10:41

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have to be able to put those boundaries in place because you know, let's face it, it is a Pandora's box, right? It's so tempting. I mean, we've all been there, we've all felt the flex on the pool, right? It's like, you know, those days when like you're trying to somehow you're trying to surf the entire internet in one city. Yes, take it all in. Oh, yeah. So, and this is also where like, you know, it becomes a way to short circuit. So I actually most of my work is primarily online. Yeah, and I actually do get very overstimulated from screen time. I wonder if it's the same for you.

April Snow 11:16

Absolutely. I when I'm not working, I've developed a bit of an aversion to being on the screen. Yes, because there's too much of it or there's uh enough of it during the workday.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 11:26

Yeah, and it's like being able to, it's not about eliminating, like you know, James Clear says this really beautifully. It's when you're trying to lessen a habit to swell, like lessen the control of a habit that there is, it's really about replacing it. So rather than saying, oh, I'm not allowed to do this, it's like, okay, I'm gonna replace this with this, right? So it's like, okay, you have no phone in your bedroom. It's like replace it with a book that you want to read or like a magazine. And if it's a lighting issue, then get a lamp. That's going to right or an alarm clock, right? Exactly. Like that's a that's a big one that a lot of people say. They're like, oh, but what about my lamp clock? It's like, okay, then oh, like I do recommend those sun sunrise alarm clocks. That's what I have.

April Snow 12:08

Yeah, it's so gentle, so gentle.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 12:11

And if you are an HSP, like it's just such a gentle way to wake up to so like little hacks like that, like we don't realize, but it's the little tiny changes that can make such a profound impact on our life, right? So, but we kind of have to create that foundation first. So we've been talking about like the physical, you know, the physiological impact that Flutter has to still, and it's also a way to create new mental space and clarity.

April Snow 12:37

Yes, yes, absolutely. Because we're taking something out, space can actually come in for once.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 12:43

Yeah, and if people are, you know, interested in like manifestation, all that, then it's actually a way to welcome in new opportunities and to be able to align yourself. So there is a reason why. So I don't know if you're familiar, but Maricondo's book is actually called The Life Changing Magic of Tiding Up. And it's sold over four million copies, maybe it's even more now, translated into over 40 languages too. The title is bold, right? Like the life-changing magic of tiding up. That's very bold. Yeah. But why this happens is because you know, people go through extreme transformations, even for my family. Like, you know, I told you we grew I grew up in mega cities. I was under the conditioning that I was like, okay, this is how I should raise my children, just kind of going with like, okay, just plotting along. And then that after I've done my tiding festival, so that's also another cute terminology. Like instead of saying, oh, it's decluttering, because oftentimes that has a negative connotation to it, Marikondo actually calls it a tiding festival. So when you entire home, the first foundation that you lay down is called a tiding festival. It's actually a direct translation from Japanese, which is katatske matsu. So it's literally just means tiding festival. So it's something we want to look forward to, right? And then when we completed our tiding festival, I think it was about a year later, I finally had that courage to like face this question that my husband had been posing for some time. Like he wasn't happy where we were living, but I was just kind of like blinders on, don't want to think about it. And it finally gave me the courage that, like, no, this is not my ideal life. This is not my ideal family life either. And so we actually commarried, we let go of the city that we're living in, and we took a family gap here for an entire year. We just slow travel, and our kids were, gosh, they were not even three and one at that time.

April Snow 14:38

Wow, and so it's never fancy, you know. This is amazing. I mean, your family is kind of just really blossoming at that point, and you're like, no, we need to change. And I love this letting go on a bigger scale, it's like expanding and a couple of things here. And I also love the tiding festival and that it's something to look forward to, it's a celebration, not a chore, and that we can apply it to every part of our lives. And we were we were talking privately about you could even declutter your relationships, not

Letting Go With Gratitude

April Snow 15:10

just your home or your other parts of your life, but this can touch everything.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 15:14

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like, you know, that's the bigger stuff in life, right? And I find that like even if you, you know, in all spiritual teachings, and even if you are not spiritual too, everyone's always talking about letting go, right? Like let go of the limiting beliefs, let go of that relationship or a toxic relationship and whatnot. And I'm like, you know, but that's diving into the deep end. We're not taught how to let go as a society. If anything, we're we're taught to hold and accumulate and get more. I mean, just look at the state of the world, right?

April Snow 15:47

Right, exactly.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 15:48

And we're not taught, and so this is actually like I always pose that as like, you know, our home is a training ground. Like this decluttering method is a way to learn how to let go in a healthy way. So we start with gentle. That's why I'm like, you know, this method is so perfect for HSPs. Yeah, because with like, you know, the things that we have in our own home, it might feel really basic. Does it spark joy? Does it bring me purpose, right? But before you practice it, it's like a muscle. By the time you get to those intangible, really challenging, you know, energetically charged items, it's it is a mindfulness practice as well. So you're able to sit still with what's coming up in your body and then let it go with gratitude. So gratitude is a is a huge component, and it's also why it's so different from traditional organizing. So I have to you actually have to be grateful for the things that you are letting go. That's the healthy letting go. If you let it go with you know shame, regrets, anger, you're actually still storing those emotions inside of your body.

April Snow 16:56

That makes a lot of sense because these objects do represent different emotions or memories. And if you don't get closure with the items, just like if you don't get closure with a relationship, the door is open and you're still holding that. That makes a lot of sense. And there's like this building up, we're starting step one instead of trying to jump to step 10.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 17:17

Uh yeah, and it can be like, you know, it's almost like we can ritualize it as well because it's also tangible, right? So let's say, like, this mug is from a relationship that is no longer in my life. You know, so for you, you might be like, oh, that's a cute mug. But for me, like, you know, there's a lot of regret or shame around it. And then so instead of just chucking it, like, oh, screw that person, you know, like they treated me terribly. It might actually just look like it takes time, like take as much time as you want because everyone's gonna have that different emotional readiness. You might not be ready to let it go. That's also okay too. So it's really tapping into where you are at in your journey, and it's like, okay, what has this person taught me? You know, it's like, thank you so much. You've now taught me what kind of people that I want to be surrounded by.

April Snow 18:03

Right. I mean, what a beautiful healing process. And just especially for HSPs, because we do place a lot of symbolism and meaning on objects and things that represent our experiences. So to know, like, if I have this mug, and this mug actually is very special to me that I have here, but let's say something changed. I could take my time, I could remind myself what it taught me, and then I let it go. And I'm letting it go like clear.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 18:31

Yes. How beautiful. I love that. And it could even be something really practical, right? Like it might be like, oh, I wasn't supposed to put that into the dishwasher. Right. So, so things like that. So we when we go through that, it's almost like you when we have these mindful pauses to reflect. So I like to frame it as we reflect, we reframe, and then we release it. So when we reflect on it, then we can reframe it and then we can release it, right? So even something like that. Let's say that these don't function well, for example, right? So I actually I'll give you a good example. It's like let's say that like these work really well. Like I have very small ears, so I actually use children's earbuds, like earbuds. And so when you hold it, you're like, oh, it sparks a lot of joy, just like your mug, it holds special meaning. So actually, as HSPs, when we are surrounding ourselves with these conscious choices of what you have decided to bring into your home or allow into your home, it will energize you. So the same goes with like, you know, how I said earlier about just seeing clutter will raise your cortisol levels. But at the same time, it's like when you're in a calm space, right? Just like looking at your background behind you, your shelfie is beautiful, you know. So then it's like, oh, that feels really good on the nervous system. So it will actually calm your nervous system too. This is also why before and after pictures go viral on social media. There's a reason why these kind of cleaning content, these hiding content go viral because it actually is soothing the nervous system.

April Snow 20:04

That makes sense because whenever I see those, I feel so deeply satisfied and like a sense of relief. And I don't even know the person or the space, but I still feel it feel the benefit. Yeah, right.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 20:16

And I mean, also because we're HSP, so we we feel it on the neck on another level. But yeah, it's just about, you know, it's because I also want to just share with the audience as well. This isn't about minimalism, like a lot of times this is like quite a big myth because Mari Condor, her aesthetic is very minimalist. So people have this idea that, like, oh, I have to get rid of everything. But no, actually, the method is all about what do you want to keep in your

The KonMari Rules And Categories

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 20:42

life? So, this is all there's a lot of positive psychology infused in the two. So, yeah, for folks who are not familiar, I can give like a brief overview. That would be great. Yeah, yeah. So the Coleman method, we actually have five rules, right? Wait, six rules. So the first one is to commit yourself to tidying up because without commitment, we're not gonna get very far, as we all know, with anything in life, right? Like you can just have wishful thinking, but so we've got to commit ourselves. Number two is imagining your ideal lifestyle. So this one I found really, really tricky when I first read the book. I was like, what is this? Like, and I realized now, like now I can share after having over a decade of experience too. It's like I wasn't giving myself that permission to dream. It was that yes. And so, whenever we go through the ideal lifestyle, and this can look different for people, right? Like, whether you're if you're into journaling, there's journaling prompts. Like, I actually have journaling prompts as well. Of like, what kind of people do you want to be surrounded by? How do you want your space to feel? Where are you? How do you want to feel about yourself? Like, just those kinds of questions. If people are more visual, you could totally make a vision board. That's very popular, too. Or even a Pinterest board if you want to do it in a digital way. So it's just a way. Like and and the big tip that I have for everyone is if you are doing this, just allow yourself to feel relaxed and don't be held back by barriers such as money, time, commitments. Just park those by the door and just allow yourself to dream big. You know, and it's gonna look different for everyone. Some people might be like, hey, my ideal life is to have a beach one property. Great. There's some people are gonna be like, I'm really happy in my home. I just want to start my day off with a calm cup of coffee. And that's also wonderful, too. So the the the method is really like this, there's no judgment as well because it's about what you define as joy, right? So then and the other rules are more technical. So we go by category, not room by room. Right. So this is quite different from like normally people be like, I'm gonna do my garage, I'm gonna do my kitchen. So the categories in the Komari method is the first one is clothing, second is books, third is paper, fourth is called komono, which is miscellaneous in Japanese. So that means everything else under the sun, like the garage items, seasonal items, hobby items, toiletries, medication, so everything that's not clothing, books, or paper fall under category number four. And then the last one is sentimental items. So we go through the sequence because we're actually building the muscle. So clothing is typically the easiest. Okay, and I also have another theory. It's like because you know, the um your skin is your largest organ, so you get to take ownership of what you want to put on your body.

April Snow 23:43

Oh, that's powerful.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 23:45

It is for HSPs, especially, right? Yes, yeah, and then so when you go through that, because it's like, you know, I also I used to question myself a lot. I used to not trust my gut and my intuition too, always kind of handing the power over to others, even things like, oh, where do you want to eat? It's like, oh, wherever you want to eat, right? Like those kinds of things. So it's interesting, but it's like when you start to practice, okay, what is my full body yes? What do I want to wear? Who am I now and who am I becoming? And then it's represented by, you know, just it seems very basic, but it's quite symbolic.

April Snow 24:23

Oh, it feels so deep. And I can understand why HSPs might struggle with not only the dream, the step number two, but also then how do I want to feel? What do I want to represent? What do I want to put on my body? We're we're so we're often giving those choices over to someone else or being influenced. So, what powerful kind of reclaiming of our voices through this process?

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 24:49

There's a lot of body shaming. I mean, and that comes through so many sources, right? We're surrounded by it too. So it really goes back to like, I mean, some sometimes some of the work, because it depends for me, like it differs from person to person, but especially when it comes around body, like what weights, weight yo-yoing fluctuating as well. So we do a lot of the reframing work around that too, which will be about, you know, you're not defined by the label, right? Like, I want to just be, you know, I want to be the fittest, healthiest version of myself versus I need to fit into, and then the the size, right? Exactly. Yeah. Um, so it it takes you're able to step back into your power. So we also have another rule, which is you cannot buy any decluttering organizing tools until after. Declutter first and then buy organizing solutions. What was that? Could you give some examples of what that might be? Yeah, yeah. So I always like to encourage people to just shop from your own home. Anything can be repurposed as an organizing tool, like even get a tissue box, cardboard tissue box, cut off the top, and then that becomes a separator as well. So I'm a big advocate of we have more than enough. It actually always proves that like we have more than a shoebox is great as well. If you want to upgrade later, then do so. But what this actually helps to facilitate is mindful intentional shopping. So when you are, you know exactly what you need to buy. So, for example, I work with a client on her kitchen before. If we had gone the route of measuring everything, everything has to have like those match and match boxes. And don't get me wrong, I love a good match and match box. But like if we had gone down that route, we would have bought dozens, you know, like oh yeah, right, just to put fit it. But we followed a rule. So at the end, all we needed to buy were two boxes.

April Snow 26:38

Isn't that amazing? Because I've seen some of these kind of organizing shows or on social media, and there's so many things that are bought, and sometimes you need that, but I love what you're saying, which is you can use what's already in your home, which one brings more intention, but also creates more accessibility for folks who can't go out and buy all the things, and also things change as you pare down. Yeah, yeah.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 27:02

So, my in my own home, like even though I do this as a profession, I have a blend, I have a mix of repurposed and some spot containers, and that's okay, you know. Like, I think this is also where I want people to also let go of Pinterest Perfect. Ooh, yeah, and that because it doesn't bring the joy, right? Like, I think the intention behind it is really about a space that serves you versus I'm doing it for validation, right? For the image, for the image. Like, I mean, of course, like don't get me wrong, like if aesthetics is your thing and it brings you a lot of joy, go for it. But it's always going back to like and I use this example a lot too, even with like luxury goods, right? Are you buying it because you really appreciate the craftsmanship and the quality, something that you want to be able to pass down, etc.? Or are you doing it because you feel like you need to look a certain way?

April Snow 27:55

Right, exactly. Where is that urge coming from? Is it internal or external?

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 28:01

Yeah, so when we're able to kind of differentiate between that as well, you know, because I used to have a lot of purses and handbags, and then I realized I was like, actually, no, if I don't want to have that maintenance, especially with like another guys, it can get moldy. I was living in the tropics before I'm currently based in Scotland, but I was living in this tropics before this, so you know, even just the maintenance as well. Like you have to like, there's a thing, there's things called such as bag spas as well. Oh, bag spas. Yeah, what is that? It's like dry cleaning for purses. Got it. I'm not a purse person, so I have no idea. But I've changed. I'm like, I'm a I'm a canvas tote bag girl now, and that's me, yeah. Like, I'm like just so happy with that, and there's it you get to just own it, yeah, exactly.

April Snow 28:48

I mean, just be who you are, or use what works for you in your everyday life, yeah, yeah, and that's what it is.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 28:55

So, like, yeah, and then so the rules, okay, we've covered some of them, and then so we have to do it in the right sequence as well. So the categories why we do it is because you know, you more often than not, and this is one of the mistakes that I often see. People are like, I'm gonna do my garage, I'm gonna do my kitchen, but that is a kimono category, category number four. That's the highest density zone already. So if you have never done a hit workout and you just go in, like, imagine what's gonna happen, right? Not good, yeah, yeah, you're not gonna be happy, and then so it's so overstimulating, it's so overwhelming because it's one of those in a kitchen, especially it is a my friend and I we call it the sexy category, you know, like and kitchen are the sexy categories because it's the one where you actually feel this, it's such a high traffic zone that you really feel that transformation, and it is a good one, right? But then it is intense, it is intense because you have this source, you know, you open one area, but then you're like, okay, there's like lots of mini school little things that don't actually belong in the kitchen, so it it overstimulates us and it will actually lead to overwhelm.

April Snow 30:06

Makes sense because if I think about clothing, I'm focusing on one type of item versus a kitchen, a garage. Yes, they're high impact when they're done, but you're touching a million categories in those spaces. And I just think about an HSP who gets easily overstimulated one, but also develops decision fatigue. You're switching so many different things in your brain, trying to figure out okay, where does this go? Where does that go? This shouldn't be in the kitchen, this should be it's just so much. So there's so much intentionality here in these categories and the order, which to me is beautiful because then I don't have to figure out how to approach this.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 30:43

Yes, and I'll also show you as well. So it's like, you know, we also make it really uh gentle too. So, like how I was saying about like the categories, too, right? There's clothing, there's books, there's paper, kimono, and then there's one more sentimental. But if you just go in, even if you're like feeling very overwhelmed, you're like, I want to start, but I feel kind of overwhelmed because I have a lot of clothes and everyone's gonna look different. I've worked with people who can do their entire wardrobe and 45 minutes. I've also worked with people who need it over 20 hours. Wow, that's a big difference. A big difference, and this is with somebody by their side, right? And there's gonna be people I you know, because I teach a lot online now too. There's people who have like a lifetime of belongings, yeah, that's right. So because they've never ever decluttered before. So if you look at this here, it's divided into subcategories.

April Snow 31:31

So could you say a few of maybe just give a few examples?

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 31:35

So, like for example, your tops, your bottoms, your dresses, your athletic wear, your shoes,

Mindful Buying Over Pinterest Perfect

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 31:40

jackets, winter wear, etc. So this also still follows the philosophy where we're going by the subcategory. I mean, we're going by the category. And the wisdom behind it is because when you can see it in its totality, it's easier to make sound decisions, like conscious decisions. So let's say, for example, April, like you're okay, I'm gonna start. Let's take out all your shoes, right? Yeah, but they take it out from you, we're not doing it room by room, so you gotta take the shoes from every area, everywhere, yes, get them all together, all together, and then you see it. So this also creates a visual impact. So if anyone has watched the Netflix show before, then you'll see that there's the infamous mountain of clothing.

April Snow 32:22

Yes, exactly. I have watched it, and every time there's like a huge bed full of clothes, but that's true, it does leave an impact because if you have clothes in your bedroom, in the guest room, in the hall closet, you don't get to take it all in. No, and like so.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 32:38

There is that maricano basically calls it, it's like a shock to your system as well. Yeah, so more often than not, when you see it, I mean, how many of us are guilty of like standing in front of a closet and saying, I have nothing to wear, right? So when you have that visual impact, you're like, I have more than enough, right?

April Snow 32:56

Because you're seeing it all together, not just one sliver.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 33:00

And so the shock is intentional, yes, and then it's also either I have more than enough or I have too much. Yes, yes, so it's that you know, we have to have these, it's almost like these epiphanies, it activates us as well. So this will actually help to shape our future purchasing behaviors and decisions too. So this is also how I'm a reformed alcoholic, right?

April Snow 33:26

Um, yeah, when did that switch happen for you if you're open to sharing?

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 33:30

Yeah, of course. I think it was once because when and this is why the method is so different because I've decluttered my whole life, you know, like my mom is like pretty OCD as well. So I didn't really have that problem of letting go, but it was more when you are able to link it back to the joy and gratitude, which is the key components of the Konari method. When you are grateful, when you're content, then that leads to happiness. So I realized, like, you know, just even by holding things, like, and I used to not be able to enter a shop without leaving, purchase something. I used to buy a lot from fast fashion too. So even when I was holding those fast fashion items, like that's really where the reflection comes in. I was like, oh, you know what? Like this t-shirt, I only wore it once or twice, and then the shape is worn out, you know. So instead of just talking it like how I normally would have, it was just kind of like, you know what? I don't want to support sweatshot labor. I want to be able to support, like, I want to purchase quality over quantity.

April Snow 34:30

Yes, exactly. It really wakes you up, yeah.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 34:33

And it puts the because it's coming from a place of empowerment, no one's forcing you. So I I like to give a lot of these like crash diet analogies as well, because you know, it's like when you feel like forced, when you're doing it from a place of fear and not good enough, etc. The rebound is bound to happen. But when you're doing it from this place of embodiment, it's coming from a place of love and gratitude as well. That's where the evolution can happen. You know, we're not doing it from this shame-based place, yeah. So this is really like it's happened. And I'm like, okay, of course, like sometimes you might still have those fires remorse where whatever happens, but it's more like you're able to kind of be like, okay, like this happened, but instead of dwelling on it, ruminating on it, it's like, okay, what can I do better? What am what am I taking away from it? So this goes back into the whole letting go with gratitude component, yeah. And I think it's really powerful as HSPs too, because we tend to ruminate. I still I'm human, you know, like, but yeah, we're able to bounce out of it from a more empowering place.

April Snow 35:40

Yeah, it feels so empowering to feel like you have a sense of control and connection to your choices, you're not maybe mindlessly buying things or making decisions without thinking, well, what's the impact? What's my value here?

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 35:53

Yeah, and I also just want to share as well, you know, because we talked about how the seeing the cloud increases the cortisol level too. So, like one of the patterns that I've seen a lot, this is why I bring up about the digital devices, right? Because that actually becomes an energy drainer in our lives. But another pattern that I've seen, and especially having the privilege of going into people's homes, is that, you know, let's say that you have a very stressful job, your home is cluttered, you come home after a long day, and then you it's like another hit on your nervous system. And actually, it will activate coping mechanisms. Um, there's research done on this where it will activate coping mechanisms such as binge eating, binge watching, and mindless scrolling. So then what happens is it becomes like this really vicious cycle because you might be if you're mindlessly shopping, that means more stuff coming into your house, you might be having more into debt. You there's a lot more shame going in, your sleep is impacted, your diet is impacted, right? Right.

April Snow 36:58

Everything is connected. You're just kind of feeding the cycle of shame.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 37:02

Yes, that's that's why I was like, you know, right off the bat, I'm like, get the charger, create a charging station.

April Snow 37:08

Yes, like a landing spot for your phone.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 37:11

Like, get used to it. It took me a while to get used to it. I started this, like my therapist uh taught us this, like about gosh, like I want to say, yeah, over a decade ago now. And it was slow going at first. I still felt myself like I my husband has a joke. Like in the beginning, literally, he was like, I know where to find you, you'll be at the charging station. So we started off kind of gently as well. Like, it's like, okay, put the charging station within the kitchen. And then it was like, okay, let's set uh the curfew for the devices, you know, it's step by step because it's not easy because it's so pervasive in our lives.

April Snow 37:47

Yeah, we need to kind of gently step ourselves down, just like with the decluttering, you're kind of gently going through the process, you're not doing it all at once, on one day, just one step at a time.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 37:58

Um, and it's really about like, okay, where's your, you know, we have our comfort zone and then we're we have our stretch zone as well. So where is your stretch zone? Because this is also where it's gonna look different, and then after the stretch zone is your panic zone, right? So everyone's gonna look different. Like some people are gonna be like, oh, okay, great, like listen to this podcast and be like, okay, I can do my entire house. But some people might be like, okay, I need to, you know, let this marinate for a little bit longer.

April Snow 38:24

Yeah, exactly. And I love that there's permission for that. You don't have to rush through. And I know you offer resources for folks, which we'll touch on in a bit, but it's just good to know you can do it all on your own. You can reach out for help, you can take your time with it, right? The goal doesn't sound like it's not perfectionism. No, no, not at all.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 38:43

Like that's something that we can let go of. Yeah, we can let go of that too. Let go of that too, you know, especially for I think that this is something that's pretty powerful, especially for anyone who is living with, like, you know, being a perfectionist. And I think that is a recurring theme as well, especially for uh HSPs, especially for women too, because there's so much weight that's put on us. Like we have so much invisible weight that we're carrying, not even just from what we've been exposed to, but also from what our ancestors have gone through as well.

April Snow 39:15

It's intergenerational, yeah.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 39:17

Yeah. So it's like when we're able to see, like even this whole scarcity mindset, it comes in out a lot when we're doing the decluttering because you might have been taught or you might have been it's been modeled from a young age that maybe it's like uh parents who have gone through the depression or they've lived through wars. Of course, they've gone through really traumatic times, so they're like literally, I you can't throw anything away. Exactly. So it's a it's a

Family Systems Kids Consent And Trust

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 39:40

really, really healing process. You're like, okay, thank you so much. And it goes back to the gratitude. It's like, thank you for everything that you have done, you know. But I now know, right? Now I don't have to live that way.

April Snow 39:53

Not only healing yourself, but you're healing that lineage. Yes, uh, it's really beautiful.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 40:01

So especially if you have if any listeners have like children as well, it's really, really empowering. I mean, I know that we do live in the time now where it's the other end of the spectrum where it's like one click purchase, same day delivery. You know, kids are like, Where's my package? You know, exactly. Like they want to instantly, yeah, the instant gratification, right? So it's like we need to find that nice balance as well. So I love also guiding. I mean, this method is for everyone. I've taught everyone from age two to 80 because we all need to be taught how to let go, right? And get used to it because it's actually it's a basic life skill that we're never taught.

April Snow 40:37

It's true. I wonder if you could share just briefly how your kids have responded to this whole process.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 40:44

It's interesting. So, like for my eldest, she's really taken to it. She's 10, going on 11 now, and it's so cute because I teach it as a self-soothing self-regulation tool. So, you know, when we're feeling a little bit overstimulated, it's like just folding the things and then you know putting it back or reorganizing things that will actually calm our nervous system. So I've caught her a few times when she was feeling like you know, worked up, just going and reorganizing her drawers as well. It's the cutest. And even for my youngest, she's more attached to things. But I've seen because it's through the practice, right? She's less and less attached, right? And then it's also helps because they are able to, you know, we're all gonna have big emotions, but then we're able to um bounce back a lot quicker.

April Snow 41:30

Yes, I mean, what a beautiful way to learn to regulate because it's tactile, you're putting your focus on something that you can solve, so there's a sense of control there. Yeah, and it's so regulating just having that process. And that's exactly what I do when I'm feeling stressed. Like, I want to organize something, I want to clean something up. It it works, it's so helpful.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 41:52

So, this is also a really great tip for HSPs. I tell this to everyone because I work and we both work primarily, you know, on online, right? And it's our lives, but we can actually empower ourselves. So when the house is like set up with systems too, it just becomes it's so easy to reset. Like my house is not perfect all the time. I have two young kids, you know. But two is we can reset it. I can go around, but it's like I can pick things up from around the house, like I'm just picking up things, right? But what happens is that because I know exactly where things go, you can actually activate your flow state of mind. It's like, okay, this goes into the kitchen sink, this goes into my backpack, this goes into my little work caddy.

April Snow 42:35

So there's a sense of movement there and ease.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 42:39

Yes, and then we're also breaking free from the screen time as well, or you can even just be like, Oh, I'm just gonna wash the dishes right now. You know, I'm a Cancerian, so I'm a water sign, so I really love like water really soothes me and like calms me as well. So it's just like, oh, okay, just doing the dishes, drawing up, putting it away, that kind of thing, right? So we can use our house as a self-soothing and self-regulation tool. I love that so much. We're just taking that in.

April Snow 43:03

Yeah, we can use our house to regulate.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 43:07

Yeah, like that. I'm like, I I really want more people to know about this because it's like, don't get me wrong, it's great to treat yourself, all that kind of stuff too, take a bubble bath, et cetera. But I'm like, yeah, you know, there's so much beauty in being able to take care of your home and to show that gratitude for it too. And when there are systems in place, that means that every single person living under the same roof can pitch in. It becomes their responsibility too. So my kids, you know, it doesn't happen overnight, obviously, because it there's training, there's obviously like age appropriate chores, all that kind of stuff. But my kids now they can make their own breakfast, their lunch, they have their bags packed. I don't have to go down to the kitchen until 8 a.m. So I get to do my meditation as well. I get to, you know, I'm an HSP, I'm not a morning person. So I was like, I need to have like slow mornings, and there is gonna be bickering. In the background, I get really activated by the two. But I know, like eight out of 10 times, like they have a handle on their things. This is fosters independence too. It cultivates confidence. And it means that you invest this time to do this, you will absolutely gain it back.

April Snow 44:18

Yeah, you're feeding yourself so much. Like you're regulating, you're empowering yourself, you're cleaning up your space. I mean, there's so many good things happening, just kind of ricocheting off each other.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 44:30

And like if the if the family members ask me, though, like, oh, where's this? I can tell them, oh, it's here, this drawer, left-hand side, go get it yourself. So as an HSP, our energy is our currency. So you're not using up precious currency and reserves on trying to find something. And when you're trying to find something that you cannot locate, stress hormones go through through the roof.

April Snow 44:52

So stressful. And you're right. As much as we can kind of delegate and empower others to do for themselves, whether it be children or spouses or roommates or family, that energy that we get back is so precious.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 45:06

It is so important.

April Snow 45:08

Yeah.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 45:08

And you can focus on the things that matter.

April Snow 45:11

Exactly. Exactly.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 45:13

It means that you can focus on creating more. Like, what do you want to focus on? Like for us, it's like, okay, we want to be able to spend time with the kids, be able to, you know, train them, right? It's like the things that I was saying. It's like if the space wasn't supporting us, I wouldn't be able to teach them how to make some basic items, right? Like pancakes, eggs, all that kind of stuff. And like life skills. Exactly. Yeah. So it's also a way to just focus on like, okay, you'll be able to expand your energy field. And I also want to, this is one of the top questions that I get all the time. So I kind of want to address it as well because people are always asking about like, how do I make my XYZ like declutter pick up after themselves? So with that, I just want to address like the Komari way is that we don't force anyone, we hold space for them. Right. So if they are not ready, that's okay. Because when you start to feel that lightness, that energy change in your cell too, people just naturally gravitate towards it. Even animals, obviously, they're highly sensitive too, right? It's so funny. There's been like so many sessions that I've conducted where people will be like, oh, my cat doesn't like people. They're probably gonna sing the other room. And they actually come into the room as we're decluttering because you feel the energy shifting too. But so it does come like I hear it so often. People will be like, Oh my gosh, my husband asked me, can I fold his underwear drawer the same way that I did mine? And it just becomes like a key thing because it comes from a place of like they want to do it, it's not forced. I mean, of course, there are gonna be people who are resistant who are skeptics as well. And again, that goes back into how we've reframe it. Like my father-in-law, he kind of mocks me about this as well. But then instead of like, of course it hurt as an HSP, you know, I was like, oh, like I felt offended by it. Sure. I'm like, no, I'm not gonna be offended by it. Like, I honor that feeling, but let's reframe it. Instead of saying stuff like, oh, he'll never be able to come Mari, I can say something like, Oh, when he's ready, I'm here for him.

April Snow 47:12

Right, exactly. We're letting folks see it kind of vicariously, how the energy shifts, how we've maybe changed, how the spaces function more, and they're like, Oh, I want some of that, but let them get there on their own time, just like we're letting ourselves get there on our own pace.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 47:29

Yeah, especially when we're helping up. Oh, the biggest tip I would say is also okay, so do not throw other people's stuff away when you're going through your journey, only focus on your own things.

April Snow 47:39

That's important, that makes sense, yeah, and ask for permission too.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 47:43

So, even with my kids, too, and and especially if you have young kids too, just kind of see where their emotional readiness is because they might only have attention span for 10 minutes, and that's okay. So, what I will recommend for that is just to say, like, ask them if you can kind of see their attention is going, like, of course, I've been there, I will feel activated. I'm like, oh, you're not focused, whatever. But actually reframe it as okay, I see that you want to play with that toy. Like, can I make the executive decision? You know, can I make the decisions for you? Because the the whole process is about respecting and honoring their decisions.

April Snow 48:17

Yes, I love that. Yes.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 48:19

Uh, and and that this is actually where a lot of the little tea trauma comes in for people, why they resist decluttering, because they might have come home from school when they were younger and all of their things had been, you know, some of their prize possessions might have been given away.

April Snow 48:34

Absolutely, and which are so important for kids, and a lot of times parents do that because it's easier in the moment, but it does leave an impact, and then people need to hold on so much tighter to their things.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 48:48

Right? It's like if you don't clean up your room, then I'm gonna get a bin bag and throw everything out. That's so common, and I'm like, oh no, you know, because when we do it from a fear-based place, of course, we know that like brute force can make anyone do anything. Oh, looking through history, you know, it's like that's not gonna lead to sustainable change and transformation. So yeah, with kids too, it's just like hold space, and then it's actually we can also reframe it as it's a really beautiful opportunity to connect, and you get to understand those family members more, like what lights them up. So if you have kids, for example, then it makes it so much easier to be like, oh, okay, you know what? Like, I don't have to buy them all these toys anymore. Like, they're literally only playing with Lego, for example. So this helps you just create these things. It's not like, oh, you become a more discerning consumer, right?

April Snow 49:42

Not just for yourself, but for who you're buying for.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 49:46

Yeah, or they're like, Oh, when we go to the shops, definitely, they'll be like, I want this, I want this. But instead of saying, No, you can't have it, it's like, okay, let's have conversations around it. Remember that one that we got last time? I was like, Oh, you didn't play with it for that long. Is it going to be similar? Or, oh, you want another stuffed animal, but oh, you have like 15 already, right?

April Snow 50:08

You're really kind of slowing things down for them and helping them see the big picture. And it seems like there's a lot of it about consent, which I really appreciate, right? Give giving people the space to come at it on their own and intention, which is so important for all of us, but to learn it from a young age is so important.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 50:27

So important, especially for HSP kids too. So, like what this will actually lead to, the more we're able to, you know, even if they want to just keep that really tattooed t-shirt because it reminds them of a really special memory, allow it. Because even if you are like, oh, I really want to throw that away from like that broken toy or whatever it is, right? Um, just remember that every round of joy checking, so joy checking is the maintenance. So tidying testicles is a foundation laying, but the joy checking can happen periodically because we literally grow out of clothes and past versions of ourselves. So when we go through it, just remember the joy checking can happen as frequently as you want it to. It can even happen just when you're getting dressed in the morning, you're like, oh, have a quick glance at my t-shirts.

April Snow 51:08

Right, you're already in there. Makes sense.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 51:10

Yeah, you're already in there, and it will take no time because the foundation is laid already. So when they say, Oh, oh, I want to keep this and this stuff, like, and even if you don't want it, when you're honoring and respecting and hearing them and they're being seen as well, what this will lead to eventually is that they will be able to tell you the bigger things in life because they know that mom or dad is not gonna judge them, they feel safe to share with you.

April Snow 51:40

Yeah, that's so true and important because you're right that you're opening up this dialogue instead of being the authoritarian. Yes, and then they will feel safer to come through and share what they're feeling or needing because you've had some practice with it already.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 51:56

Yeah, and like eventually, as they get older too, they realize that through the letting go practice, they realize that it will have been built within their operating system that they're like, okay, you know what? Like, I can let go of this toxic friendship, or I can let go of this job that isn't serving me.

April Snow 52:14

Yes, right. It's gonna ripple out through their whole lives. So I love that we were going backwards in time, doing healing, but then also teaching this next generation to treat themselves differently and have different types of relationships. Who knew the power of decluttering? Yeah, of tidying up, exactly. Rebecca, as we start to wrap up, I'm wondering if there's one message you want to leave listeners with.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 52:39

Well,

Circle Of Joy And Next Steps

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 52:40

absolutely. I think I want people to leave with that decluttering isn't about getting rid of things, it's about choosing what truly supports your well-being.

April Snow 52:51

I love that. That's so beautiful and that you deserve it. Yeah, it's so so empowering. And I I'll definitely be sure to share the resources you mentioned, your website, social media. You also have um resources on Insight Timer. So I'll share all those in the show notes. But before we go, I'm wondering if you could tell listeners about your circle of joy community.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 53:14

Absolutely. So it's a private network, so it's for sensitive souls who want to declutter and it's like a joyful space as well, because especially what we see nowadays. The internet can be really swampy, but I wanted to create a crazy program on the internet. Like we need community, right? Like we need to do connect, it's just like how we're having these amazing conversations too. Instead of just like, oh, just swiping through, and rolling through.

April Snow 53:40

Let's land and connect.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 53:42

Yeah, like let's actually go beyond. And as HSPs, we get so tired of the surface level connections as well. So this is also where like I've made the conscious choices. Like, I don't really teach on mainstream social media, I'm still navigating my relationship with it. I'm not sure where I land on it yet. But I was like, in the meantime, I have some cozy corners where like that. And so I want people to also know that these are choices that we can make. It's like, how is it impacting your nervous system? So just like how your podcast creates so much nourishment to the HSP community as well. I want people to recognize that like you can recreate those vibes right in your own home, and then that will lead to um curating that coziness that you desire in your life.

April Snow 54:30

Oh, I love it so much. We need more of that cozy, curated spaces where we feel safe and we can start to flourish and be our full selves. Yeah, and thank you for the work that you're doing. This has been really enlightening for me. It's taken my love of tidying up to a new level.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 54:47

Oh my gosh, April, thank you so much for geeking out with me because I could go on about them for ages. And you know, thank you to the listeners as well for um your time, for listening to this conversation.

April Snow 54:58

Yeah, thank you. I'll definitely have to have you back on.

Rebecca Jo-Rushdy 55:00

Thank you so much, April.

April Snow 55:10

Thanks so much for joining me and Rebecca for today's conversation. What I hope you're taking away is that whether you're decluttering or doing something else, you don't have to do it all at once and you don't have to compare yourself to what others are doing. Instead, focus on what's meaningful to you and go at your own pace. If you're ready to start your own tidying festival, sign up for a free three-month trial of Rebecca's Circle of Joy community. Link is in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated. For behind the scenes content and more HSB resources, you can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestories.com for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.