Welcome And What We Explore

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 0:00

We tend to run more passive, which is you matter, but I don't matter. No, we both should matter. So, which is why I'm all about kind boundaries. Because everyone matters, I can still be firm with you and say what I need and express my hurts while being kind to you at the same time.

April Snow 0:25

Welcome to Sensitive Stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open. I'm your host, psychotherapist and author April Snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Ibigne Ashibodu Agnali about accepting your sensitivity, teaching others what your needs are, setting firm but kind boundaries, and finding fulfilling ways to socialize on your own terms. Ibinye, or IB for short, is a licensed marriage and family therapist for couples and women with anxiety and insomnia. As a coach, she helps highly sensitive women set clear, kind boundaries so they can put their needs at the forefront of their lives, stand up for themselves, and rock social situations. When she's not working with HSPs, she loves trying out new foods and taking naps. For more HSP resources and to see behind the scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths, or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestories.com. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in.

Discovering The HSP Trait

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 2:26

Oh my goodness. I literally remember the day. Okay. So all of my life, I've always felt like I didn't fit in anywhere. I felt like I was weird. Well, I was literally called weird by all the kids in school all the time. So I was just like, eh, I'm weird. I was told I was too sensitive. I cried too much. I was a crybaby, a drama queen, all the names. So I was just like, okay, all right. And then one day I was at work. I was an adult by then. I was an adult. And I was also a therapist by this time. I had never heard about high sensitivity, even as a therapist. This is after grad school, by the way. Wow. And I'm at work just sitting down, minding my business, and I get a text from a friend of mine, and she says, I think this is us. And I'm like, what? What is she talking about? And it says, like, highly sensitive person test. And I remember my first instinct was, is she insulting me? I thought she was my friend. Because all my life I've been called too sensitive. And I'm like, I don't understand where this is coming from. Is this an insult? So I click on the link and it's the highly sensitive person self-test. And I'm answering yes and yes and yes. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this explains my entire life.

April Snow 3:48

Yes.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 3:49

And in that moment, I felt like my world went from black and white to color. I was like, yes, this is us. This is exactly us. Yes. So I will never forget that moment. And from then on, research and I'm reading all the books. I'm on blogs. I'm noticing like some of my loved ones are highly sensitive. We're having conversations. I'm sending the test to them. And I'm like, oh, she was not indeed insulting me because we're both highly sensitive. I get it now.

April Snow 4:22

Oh, what an amazing moment. And it makes sense that initially you thought this is an insult because that's what you heard your whole life, right? Sensitive is often a derogatory term. It's yes, it's used as a negative. Yeah. But when you step back, it's like, oh, she was in this with you. Yes. Oh, how what a beautiful moment. Once you could step into it. And sounds like you just dove right in. There was no resistance, really.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 4:45

Oh no, not at all. Not at all. I was like, if there is a thing that can describe how I have felt my entire life, I would love to know more. And I think because it wasn't just me, she's one of my dearest friends, and she's also highly sensitive. And we've walked kind of like parallel paths. So it just made sense. I was like, let's learn this together. And it was just, it was so amazing.

April Snow 5:10

Isn't that beautiful that immediately you had a friend appear in that, a fellow HSP? Because we're often drawn to each other, even if we don't really know what the trait is, right? Yes. So you just sense it in someone. Oh, this is another kind of deep thinker feeler. Yes.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 5:26

Yeah, amazing. And it makes sense why she's one of my dearest friends because we just connected the moment we met.

April Snow 5:32

Yes, there's something about her, you knew. This is my person. Yes. That's beautiful. So about how many years has it been now since that happened? If you could guess. I would say 10 years, probably about a decade. About a decade. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned something important there, which is even, and I had the same experience. Well, I had I found out in grad school, but not through my curriculum, but through a friend. Just happened to say, Have you read this book? Dr. Aaron's highly sensitive person. But we don't learn it in school, even as therapists.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 6:05

No, no, not at all. Not at all.

April Snow 6:07

That's how unknown it is, unfortunately.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 6:11

Yeah. Yeah.

April Snow 6:12

Yeah.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 6:12

Absolutely. Yeah. And my dear friend was a therapist as well. We went to grad school together. She had never learned about it either.

April Snow 6:21

Right. Right. It's just not in the curriculum. I mean, we're seeing more and more research, but it still hasn't made its way into therapist's office, doctor's offices. Yeah. Um, yeah. Hopefully that changes. I hope so. That's why we're having this conversation to be part of that. So in that last decade, how have you transformed your relationship and brought your sensitive needs more to the forefront?

Self Acceptance And Educating Others

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 6:46

Yeah. Yeah. The first thing that it helped me do understanding what sensitivity was was number one, it was self-acceptance. Because all of my life I have felt like people didn't accept me. But I actually didn't realize that I didn't accept my own self until I started this journey of high sensitivity. So the first step I had to do was, you know what, Ivy, there's a name for it now. You're highly sensitive. It's not going away. It's not a bad thing. You are not a mistake. Because I thought maybe I'm a mistake. Because I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with me, right? So that was my first step is you're okay. And then after that, I spent a lot of alone time and I started spending time in nature. You know, before I found out I was highly sensitive, I don't know why I never spent time in nature. It was just like cocooned in my own room. I don't know why I was doing that, which is like really awful for high sensitivity. So I started hiking, just kind of just spending time in nature, and with that, learning to really just listen to my own thoughts and my own needs. And I would just kind of almost talk to myself, like, okay, debrief myself, debrief the day. And then that kind of gave me the energy to start to set boundaries with other people. Because I realized if you are one of the 30% or 20% that's highly sensitive, the other 60 to 70 or 80 to whatever the percentage is, they don't get you. And so if you are to live with them, you kind of have to do a little bit of education, right? And so I started with the people around me. Like I found out this thing, and I would send everybody the test, and they'd be like, Yeah, this is you, this is definitely you. And they were like, Oh, and I let them know, stop calling me too sensitive. I'm the right amount of sensitive. Okay. Yeah, like I just went right in. Yeah, stop saying that I'm a drama queen, I am not dramatic. These are my emotions. They are big, they're many, they are bountiful. My emotions mean something, so you all are gonna stop this. And they were like, Oh, okay, like okay. And really, I just started to also slow myself down. I'm super high achieving. I grew up in like one of the most competitive high Nigerians, like, let me just say it. I'm Nigerian and we are just like, look here from the moment you are born, you'll accomplish A, B, C, D, E, F, G. Like, that's just it, right? And I'm like, how do I accomplish things and honor my needs at the same time? And I've learned how to like structure my day, not caring what people think. Like that, that part was hard. Because I also grew up in a collectivist culture where you are the people, you are your family. Whatever I do reflects upon my family. And I'm learning to just, and I say learning because I haven't arrived, I'm still growing every day. Learning to honor my needs for slowness, for stillness, learning to set boundaries to say, this is enough. I'm going home now. I love you, but I'm going home now. Or can you turn the TV down a little bit because it's sounding like screams in my ears? Right. And that's what I've been doing, is just because I'm no longer ashamed of who I am, I'm able to like step forward and just be like, This is me, guys, and I'm not changing. And you all are gonna have to adapt a little bit, same way I've been adapting in this very big loud world.

April Snow 10:29

Exactly. We all need to adapt and do our part.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 10:32

Yes.

April Snow 10:33

And yes, what you said is so important. I used to think, oh, this is the like downtime or boundaries are the foundation. It really is self-acceptance. We can't do anything else unless we believe our trade is real, and like you said, it's not going anywhere. Yes, your emotions are valid. And I love the the ability to stand up for yourself in that because it's true. Yeah, you are you, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? And then we all need to do our part in kind of softening for others, making room for others, right?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 11:07

Yeah, absolutely.

April Snow 11:08

How did people receive the new you who's coming forward with your sensitivity proudly? How I'm just curious how that people responded to that.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 11:18

So I started with the people that I knew were safe. Yes. I started there. People who I know are natural acceptors, people who I know are listeners, who are more empathetic, understand. I started like with the safest people and gave them some material to read, and they were like, Oh, I get it now. It makes sense why you've been this way all of your life. And then I let them know as I'm learning, I'm going to start teaching you. And they were like, Okay, okay, or like certain things they'd say to me that were funny before, like they thought was funny. And I'm like, We don't say that anymore. They're like, Oh, okay, okay, okay, yeah, that's right. We don't do that anymore, right? And they were accepting, and it's so funny because over the years they would almost like refer people to me. They're like, I think she's highly sensitive. Can you tell her more? Yes, yes, I'm the flag bearer for HSPs, I guess. So it was good. And then for those who weren't so accepting, or for those who were like, this is not a thing, I set really hard boundaries. I'm like, well, I can only now take you in doses because I'm telling you that this is a thing. This is what I'm needing, even if you don't agree that this is a thing. I'm just telling you, like, this is what I need to have a better, more civil relationship with you, and you're rejecting that. And so I'm gonna have to protect my peace. Like, we can only like be together for like a millisecond before like implode, and so I can't do that. I don't want to implode.

April Snow 13:02

Absolutely right. Your needs don't change just because they don't agree, right?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 13:06

Exactly.

Kind But Firm Boundary Scripts

April Snow 13:07

So you talk a lot about setting kind but firm boundaries. Yes. Can you say more about that? So if someone is ignoring your needs or not recognizing your sensitivity, or even just trying to turn your no into a yes, because that happens a lot. Yes, how can we be firm but kind when we're setting a limit?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 13:25

Yes, I'm a big, big, big fan of kindness, right? I'm a big, like it doesn't really matter. There's just so much hostility in the world. I'm like, let's let's bring the kindness back, okay? So, first of all, just take a breath because sometimes when someone is trying to overstep a boundary, we can get very frazzled. There's so many emotions, just like it looks, it feels like a hurricane, at least for me. Like just take take a breath, breath, center yourself, ask yourself, what is it that I'm experiencing in this moment? Yeah, and why am I experiencing this in this moment? So I'm clarifying what's going on for myself first before I communicate that with the other person, and then when you feel like you're able to communicate, let the person know, like, okay, I would like to address something with you, right? And then you tell them when you said XYZ or when this happened, or I felt XYZ, yeah, and here's what I need from you. Because sometimes we stop at this is how I feel, this is what you did, but we don't tell them what you're needing, and so they don't always know what you need, and then after that, give yourself a pat on the back because it's very, very difficult to set a boundary, especially because a lot of us HSPs have been used to just listening to what everybody says, not really honoring our needs. So we can easily default to that. So when you start to stand up for yourself, it feels uncomfortable. It actually feels very unkind for some people to set a kind boundary.

April Snow 15:06

So a kind boundary can also feel unkind.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 15:08

Yes, it can feel unkind because you're essentially telling the person you can't get your way. So that could feel unkind, right? Right. Even if the person is saying something mean to you, because that has been what you've been used to. They say you're too sensitive, you're a drama queen, blah, blah, blah. And then you kind of giggle and you laugh and you just go along with it. So the moment you say, you know, that actually hurt my feelings. And what I need from you is to refrain from that type of language with me.

April Snow 15:36

Yeah.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 15:36

And then you see the look on their face, like, what? Did she just set a boundary? That's what feels unkind.

April Snow 15:42

Right. It's a shock to them because they're so used to you saying yes all the time, just completely erasing yourself.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 15:49

Yes. And your needs. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And the last piece I would say is sometimes when you set a boundary, even when you do it kindly, you might get pushback. It's not a guarantee. It's not a guarantee that they'll be like, Oh my goodness, I apologize. I know that hurt your feelings. Sometimes they'll say, I was just kidding. Like, you never like to take jokes and blah, blah, blah. We still keep our feet firmly planted on the floor and we say, That hurt my feelings. I don't condone that language. Like that, I don't care what their their response is, that hurt me. We don't allow people to continue to hurt us because we think it's unkind to set a boundary.

April Snow 16:31

Right. You you said this message a few different ways, but teaching people how to treat us, yes, and letting people know what's happening inside because they don't know.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 16:41

They don't know.

April Snow 16:42

And we get into these patterns, you know, the the HSPs tend to be the giver, the self-sacrificer. But we don't have we can turn that around. Yes. But it's gonna be uncomfortable at first with a lot of people. And I appreciate that you said earlier, you know, start with the safe people, yes, to get practice, yes, and then we can move on to things that are maybe more escalated, but it it just because it feels messy or unkind, or you have to push back a little bit doesn't mean it's wrong. It's such a good reminder. Try it again.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 17:15

Yes, yes, yeah.

April Snow 17:16

You seem like you've I'm feeling inspired by just how solid you are in this. I think we really need to hear that. You can be sensitive and you can also be firm.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 17:25

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, too important. Yeah, sensitivity is not the same as fragility. Yes, thank you. Because I feel like we we think we are like eggs, and then if we set a boundary, we'll get stepped on, and then that's it. Humpty dumpty, a million pieces, and then we can't put them together again. It's like, no, no, no. Like you can still set firm boundaries, you can still help people understand you better, you can have safe relationships and be sensitive at the same time. You can say to someone, this hurts me, please don't do it again. That's very respectful, that's very kind, and it's still firm all at the same time. We could we could do it's it's not either or it's and yes, it's both and exactly.

April Snow 18:12

And HSP, we don't think about this, but somebody talking about with clients a lot, it's how resilient we actually are. Because just think about how much more you're feeling and sensing and noticing, and yet we're still functioning at the same level as everyone else, even with that what did you call it, a tornado happening? Yes, yes, yes, exactly. So taking time to really acknowledge that resilience, that strength. And I appreciate earlier you said, you know, with your being a Nigerian, you're very ambitious. Yes, and that didn't seem that seemed like a welcome part of you. It didn't seem like a fight. I don't know if that's true or not.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 18:48

No, no, that's that's just that's just ingrained, is you will accomplish all these things, you know. The sensitive part is the part that was like, mm, is she crying? Are those tears? No, no, no, no, we don't do that. That's uncomfortable. Don't wipe your eyes, we don't do that, right?

April Snow 19:02

But you can be both and yes in that too. You can be strong, you can be ambitious, you can be boundried.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 19:08

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

April Snow 19:10

And sensitive, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I just to cut to come back, you were saying you were kind of laying out this framework, you know, always coming back to putting your feet on the ground. Yes, that's such a good start in any scenario. Yes, take a moment, take a breath, check in with yourself, remind yourself why you need this boundary. Yes, absolutely, yes, and then repeat as often as possible. And if that doesn't work, remove yourself, limit time. That's it. I think that's another reminder. I think we feel like we have to just bear it, put up with people, and that's not true.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 19:47

No, no, absolutely, absolutely.

April Snow 19:50

Yeah,

Guilt After Boundaries And Resilience

April Snow 19:51

if we're feeling unkind, how or how do you personally work with that or work with clients when they're feeling that guilt, even though they've been kind, but it doesn't feel that way, or the person doesn't like what they have to say, how can we manage that?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 20:04

Yeah, yeah. A common statement I say to my clients is are you throwing yourself in the fire to keep others warm? And that's a thing I say, like that's the benchmark. So run through the statement. You said please, you said seta the need, you didn't attack their character, there was no blaming, it was honest, you set the boundary clearly, you said what you needed. What part of that is actually not feels unkind, but what part of that is unkind? And then they're like, actually, no, that was actually a very polite way to set a boundary. Okay. So sometimes we have to remove, and I know it's difficult because as highly sensitive people, we're big feelers. So sometimes I'm like, let's go back to the thinking brain. It was not indeed unkind. Like the actual words that came out of your mouth were very kind, they were very assertive, and reminding yourself that assertiveness means I matter and you matter. Because we're we're we tend to run more passive, which is you matter, but I don't matter. No, we both should matter, so which is why I'm all about kind boundaries because everyone matters, I can still be firm with you and say what I need and express my hurt while being kind to you at the same time. So it's just, I say, sit in it, sit in the feeling of, oh my gosh, this is just like, oh, I'm squirming right now. Sit in it, take a deep breath, remind yourself, okay, I've run through the whole thing. That was not indeed unkind. This feeling that I'm feeling on the inside is because it's something new that I'm not used to. With time and with practice, you'll feel settled and it'll go away. So I don't run away. I don't teach people to run away from emotions. I say, feel the feeling, then go up to your rational mind and ask yourself is what I'm feeling actually what's going on? Right. Right. And then just sit there, breathe. It'll go. Way and then we move on, and then the next time they overstep your boundary, you set the boundary again. Sometimes we think that if I set a boundary once, the person's gonna get it. Even safe people sometimes default to their old behaviors, right? So we just have to remember when we talked about this, remind them again, they apologize. All right, and then we keep it moving. Boundary setting is a lifelong endeavor, it's not just the one and done.

April Snow 22:25

That's right, it's ongoing. Yes, yeah. I appreciate that reminder just to keep practicing. And you know, we don't need to get lost in the feeling of recognize it, acknowledge it, feel it, but then remind yourself, right? I wasn't unkind here. It's completely reasonable and reconnecting to that the reason why you set the boundary in the first place, and then remembering, oh, right, this was the right thing to do.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 22:54

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm no longer throwing myself in the fire to keep people warm. Like we can all be warm and and we don't all have to be in the fire. Like, no one has to be in the fire.

April Snow 23:06

That's right, no one has to be sacrificed. No, no, yeah, we can we can all find space around the fire, we don't have to be in it.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 23:13

Exactly.

April Snow 23:14

Such a good reminder. So we talked about setting boundaries.

Socializing On Your Own Terms

April Snow 23:18

I want to expand that out to the social experience of HSPs. This is another area you talk about quite a lot. And I I love how you talk about it can be enjoyable because you mentioned earlier there was a time where you kind of stayed in your little bubble. Yes, yes. Just to go back there, I'm curious what changed for you knowing that you're sensitive. How did that help you shift out of the bubble?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 23:39

Yeah. So when I was a child, I was often told that I was shy.

April Snow 23:46

Yes.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 23:47

And so I took that on. I'm like, I must be shy because when I'm in social spaces, I feel like I'm really squirmy, I'm very uncomfortable. You would find me like somewhere in a corner. You wouldn't even notice me. Like I was the child who like, where is she? Is she here? Oh, yeah, there she is. That that little one somewhere there. That was always me. And I remember saying this to my mom once. I said to her, actually, I said it to her multiple occasions. I said, I would love to just camouflage myself in the wall. She's like, What does that mean? But that was how I felt as a child, as a teenager. Like, I just want to be invisible because the feelings were too much. So once I found out that I was highly sensitive and I found out that you could actually have an enjoyable social life, I was like, I want to practice this because I genuinely like people. Like I generally enjoy people. I don't want to be in a room with 100,000 people at the same time. Like, that's too much for me. But I noticed like when I'm talking to people one-on-one or in small groups, when we're having deep conversations, when we're really kind to each other, I'm really loving it. So I really had to unpack. When have I enjoyed talking to people? And that's when I started to like, okay, with this, with this, with this. Okay, cool. What types of people do I enjoy being around? Okay, generally they're kind people, they're good listeners, they're respectful. Okay, cool. So it's the really rowdy, toxic ones that you don't like. Okay, now I understand. I love you really discerned it for yourself. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I was like, okay, cool, let's practice this. And I started to seek people out just one-on-one. Like, let's go out to coffee, let's go out to tea. Can I visit you in your home? Like one-on-one situations, picking the place, like a more quiet place that's not too overstimulating. And I realized, I'm like, I really do have a great personality. I mean, I thought I was just a bump on the log. I really thought that's what I was. I really did. Because I spent so much time in overwhelm, discomfort, not accepting myself that I was just silent in public. Like, there are people who are like, I've never heard you speak. And I'm like, that is wild. Because the people who know me are like, I B doesn't stop talking.

April Snow 26:12

But you got labeled shy, which a lot of HSVs do. People uh misunderstand checking things out or being overwhelmed with shyness. Yes. You got put in this box, I'm shy, and then you're of course being overstimulated. You do just kind of want to fade into the background. Yes. Because it's intense when especially if you don't know what's happening for you, it's confusing as a kid. So you so socializing in general just goes in the bucket of not good.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 26:38

Oh, no, we don't do this. We don't do this, we don't do it. No, no, we don't do this. No, we don't do this.

April Snow 26:44

Wow, what a loss.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 26:44

We sit in our room.

April Snow 26:45

We sit in our room alone. Yeah, yeah, that's it. And what a loss for you as someone who's social and loves connection.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 26:52

Yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that was that was tough because I feel like I lost like a big span of time, you know, just sitting in my room reading books and listening to music. Like that, that's all I did. I was like, cuz and then I was also labeled on top of that as I got older, unfriendly. Oh, there was the narrative. IB's unfriendly, and I B doesn't like people. So I was like, Oh, okay, I'm shy, I'm unfriendly, and I don't like people. Perfect. So I would literally say, I'm shy, I'm unfriendly, and I don't like people. And I really believed it. Oh, of course. It was my identity. So I would just go out. Like my mom was like, You're not sitting in your room forever. Come on, like, let's go somewhere. So I'd go out and I'd just be like in a corner, like, can I just sit in the car? She's like, In the car? It's hot out. No, you can't do that, you know. But once I started finding my people, and I also realized that I've always had this intuition, this thing about people. I meet someone, and it's either I love this person or danger, yeah, be careful, be very careful about this one. And so now I don't I don't force relationships, I'm able to have a relationship with anyone, but I pay attention to that intuition now. I'm like, that gut, she talks and she's very loud. And once I started listening to to that instinct, I'm like, I do love people, I enjoy socializing now.

April Snow 28:24

Yes, the gut is so accurate. And so there's so many things here. So you're realizing how you like to socialize, deep one-to-one connections, yes, in quiet spaces, yes, and then listening to your gut. Who are those people you do not want to bring into your inner circle? So important. For you personally, what does that instinct feel or sound like? Do you have someone that comes up regularly? I know this is different for everyone. I'm just curious what it looks like for you for folks that maybe are still figuring that out.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 28:57

Yeah.

Trusting Your Gut About People

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 28:58

So for me, when I meet someone who's safe, it just feels like the wall goes down.

April Snow 29:06

Yeah.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 29:07

The wall goes down, and I'm like my ears perk up, and I want to ask them a million questions, and I really want to get to know them. And when they ask me questions, I feel comfortable and safe enough to actually answer and invite them into my world. But when I meet an unsafe person, it really does feel like my spidey senses are tingling, and I want to run. Like it literally feels like I be run. And I've never been wrong. I've never, and I'll go back to my childhood. And I said that to my mom, and she was like, you know what? When you were a child, I used you as the yardstick to figure out who I should be around. And I was like, what does that mean? She says, if you let the person hold your hand, or if you sat next to the person, or you wanted to be in a room with the person, they were a good person. But if you would like look at the person and kind of like be standoffish, something would happen in the future. And I'd be like, Yeah, I be saw this coming. So I'm like, you knew this this whole time, and you never told me. Right, right. You know, so apparently I've always had that instant, and I'm telling you, it's never been wrong.

April Snow 30:18

It's amazing, isn't it? The track record. If you can listen to it, and it's it's true, it's very loud or clear. Yes, it's either a clear lean in or run away.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 30:31

Yes, absolutely.

April Snow 30:32

And it's just can we listen to that? Can we trust it?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 30:35

Yeah, I know a lot of we should. We should because it's so accurate. Yes, it is. It absolutely is.

April Snow 30:42

Oh, I love that your mom saw that. She didn't probably know why that was happening. Because you know, the language didn't exist, yeah. When we were growing, both of us were growing up, but no, it didn't. She noticed something in you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 30:57

Yeah, yeah.

April Snow 30:58

Yeah, I'm curious. Are there other challenges that pop up when HSPs are socializing that we want to name today?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 31:05

Yeah, yeah.

Overstimulation And Social Survival Tools

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 31:06

Sometimes it's the overstimulation, you know, it's loud, people everywhere, and and for some HSPs, you feel like you are experiencing the emotions of other people. Yes. At least that's the case for me. It's like if you're sad, I can like I almost feel like I need to cry when I'm I don't even have to know you. Like, I was at the supermarket one day, there was a lady sitting, which I think I was having coffee with someone, I don't know. There was a lady from across the way, and I could not focus on my conversation because I was just like, something's going on with that lady over there, and I felt the overwhelming need to cry. I didn't cry, but I was like, I need to run out of here because something's going on with that lady. I don't even know her. So you have all these people and you're tapping into their emotions. That feels very loud. There's also the element of the unknown. We tend to not like surprises. So I'm not the one to plan like a surprise party. Don't plan a surprise party for me. I don't want to do that. Don't do that to me. Like, that's awful. That's a horrible birthday for me. Yeah, no, thank you. No, ask questions. You know, it's okay to ask. So if you're invited to a space, it's okay to ask, like, where's it gonna be? Who's gonna be there? What's expected of me? I tell people, go online and just look, look at pictures of the place, you know, read the menu of the restaurant so you know what to expect. If you don't want to go out with a bunch of complete strangers, you don't have to go out with a bunch of complete strangers, you know. You can take a buddy with you, like a safe buddy, or when you get there, use that spidey sense. When you meet someone that you're like, okay, I feel comfortable. That could be your buddy for the night, you know, chat with them. There's this difficulty in having just surface level conversations, right? And that's why a lot of us don't like going to you know social situations because then they talk about, I don't know, the weather or whatever. I don't even know, but whatever, things that we don't care about, right? You don't have to have shallow conversations all the time, you know. But remember, like most people have the need to talk about the rain and the sunshine and all of that. So it's like a give and take. So let them have a little bit of their conversations, and then you can then talk about what do you do for a living and what drew you to this place and things that feel more meaningful. And if you're not feeling quite super, super safe, but it's an environment that you have to be in. Let's say, for example, you have like a work-related event and you have to be there, it's okay to just make the conversation about them, you know. And we tend to feel at ease when we're like drawing things out of people, like it's okay. Like the conversation doesn't have to be all about you if you're not comfortable yet. Take breaks when you go out. Like, I am a master of running to the bathroom to take a few deep breaths. Like, look, I go there, I take a few deep breaths, I just kind of center myself. I take deep breaths. I'm a big fan of ground. I just like two feet on the floor. I'm good, I'm safe, I'm gonna be okay, affirming myself, and then go back in. Staying in the perimeter of the room is also a great tactic that I use often. I don't enjoy being in the center of the room. I don't know what it is, but I'll just be like in a corner somewhere talking to someone, and also it feels like you can escape faster. Another thing that I you can run away, you know, I like that one. Finding people in the room that feel safe. I I've saying that over and over again because you don't have to just stand there in the corner all by yourself, you know, have those conversations. You can go outside to take a break as well, you know, just like go outside, take a few deep breaths, the fresh air is good for you, then come back in. And you don't have to stay the entire time because I think we often will compare ourselves to other people. We'll be like, Well, they're spending four hours here. You don't have to spend four hours, go there, do what you need to do, and just nicely say, Okay, now I'll be going home. Thank you for your time. Thank you for inviting me and leave. It's also okay if like that becomes your MO, like you're the one who leaves an hour early. It's okay. That's okay, right? It's okay. We get worried about being labeled, like I B's the one who always leaves early. I am the one who always leaves early. Yeah, at least I showed up. I showed up and you engaged. I did, you know, I smiled, I was kind and nice to all the people, and then I left early, and that's it. And I would say, lastly, let's refrain from over-explaining when we're in social situations because sometimes it's you feel anxious, there are people around you, you feel the eyeballs on you. We don't like feeling like we're being watched or we're under pressure. It's okay to just have your little boilerplate statements. Okay, I'm going to be leaving now. Thank you for inviting me. Have a great rest of your evening. I have so many boilerplates that I teach people. And then you leave, you know, and and that's it. And you can go be in your pajamas and watch TV.

April Snow 36:09

Yes. Uh do it your own way.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 36:11

Yes.

April Snow 36:12

Right. And find the way that is somewhat fulfilling, less overwhelming. I love the idea of being on the perimeter, finding a person to anchor to to co-regulate with, you know, to so you feel a little bit more comfortable. And ask those deeper questions. You don't have to talk about the weather.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 36:28

No, you don't.

April Snow 36:29

You don't. And some people won't want to go deeper, and maybe that's not the person you talk to. Yeah. Or, like I said, maybe you switch the topic. Um but finding ways that work for you. I am curious. You talked about when you were younger, you kind of stayed at the sides. How does it feel different now when you're also on the sides?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 36:48

Or in the sides. So when I it is different, it's so much different. So when I was younger, I stayed on the sides so I can disappear. Like my goal was if I'm in the corner, they won't see me. And if they don't see me, they won't speak to me. That was the goal. Don't talk to me, don't approach me, no eye contact. I'm looking at the floor. Please don't come near me. Please. I just thought the entire world was unsafe. Now I'm staying in the corner so I don't get overwhelmed, but I'm making eye contact with people. I'll sometimes run into the middle, chit-chat a little bit, go back to my corner. So I always have like an anchor spot that I'm at. I'll go in, do what I need to do, laugh, chit-chat, giggle, you know, do my little rounds, and then I escape again. So it's an in and out thing. I'm not so focused about what they think about me.

April Snow 37:42

Yes, that feels like the most important part. Yes, it is allowing yourself to show up in your own way, yes, and to leave when you're ready.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 37:52

Yes.

April Snow 37:52

And someone might say, Yes, IB is the one that leaves an hour early every time. I am, and you're like, that's okay. That works. I am.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 38:00

Yeah, it works. What's wrong with that? Yeah, there's nothing, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's fine. It's really fine. I've learned I am not the same as anybody else. I'm I'm not, I'm not the same as other HSPs. I am a unique being, and I'm perfectly fine with that. And everyone does not have to understand me as long as they respect my boundaries. So that's my thing. Like, I'm very firm

Introvert Myths And Being Unique

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 38:27

with my boundaries. As long as you're respectful of me, as long as you're kind to me, you might be like, that girl is so strange. It's okay. I could see how you could see me as strange. I I get it.

April Snow 38:39

It's fine. Right. You're different than probably the majority of the other people you're coming in contact with. Me too. And yeah, I appreciate that reminder. Every HSP is unique. I think we think we have to be a certain way because we're in a certain group. Right, right. We don't have to be.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 38:53

No, no.

April Snow 38:54

There are so many other intersections of personality and culture and family and background. And just be yourself. Yeah. Yeah. It's fine. And I appreciate that also. That reminder that we can be in the middle. It doesn't have to be I'm super social or I'm super isolating. Yeah. Find somewhere in the middle that works true. That is absolutely the okay place to be.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 39:17

And I do have to say that sometimes we think that HSP equals introversion. No, they're extroverted HSPs. They love to be right in the middle of the room, socializing, dancing. Woohoo! They love the bright lights and it's fine. But then the difference is that what makes us all the same is we do need that downtime to recharge after all of that. So if you're HSP, don't think that means that you're shy. Some HSPs are shy, some are not. Some are introverts, some are not, some are extroverts, some are not. So we you can be unique even while being in that category of um highly sensitive. That's that's okay. We don't judge. That's it. Yeah.

April Snow 39:56

Do you consider yourself to be extroverted?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 39:59

Oh no, no, no, okay. I I am, I say I am an introvert, introvert, like the most introverted person on the planet.

April Snow 40:08

I love it. I'm super introverted too. And it's lovely to see that even introverted HSPs can also love connection.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 40:17

Yeah, absolutely. Right?

April Snow 40:18

Because there's this stereotype that we're hermits, we're isolated, but we also need connection. Yeah, we like people, too. Just in our own way on our own time. Yeah, yes.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 40:32

I like that you said that in our own way, in our own time. That's that's the key right there.

April Snow 40:37

It is, right? Find your own way through it.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 40:39

Oh yeah, yeah.

April Snow 40:41

Uh, if there was one message you could leave us HSPs with, what would it be?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 40:46

You can do whatever you want to do, you just have to figure out the how. You can be loud, you can be quiet, you can be ambitious, you can take one thing at a time, you can move slowly, you can move quickly. You just have to figure out what this HSP thing is for you and just figure out how to move through it, and you can accomplish things however you want.

April Snow 41:10

Thank you so much, Ivy.

One Message Plus Coaching And Closing

April Snow 41:12

This is an amazing conversation and this is great. So much to take away. And I'm just so happy you you came on the podcast.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 41:19

Thank you.

April Snow 41:19

Before we wrap up, yeah, thank you. Definitely we'll be linking your Instagram, which lots of great resources there, your website, and then your coaching page in the show notes. Could you tell folks a little bit more about your coaching that you offer for highly sensitive women?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 41:32

Yes. So I do something, what I like to call the Triple T framework, right? It's just thriving. We learn how to thrive with your emotions. Most of us have just tons of emotions and we're going through that tornado all the time. So I teach you how to move from always overwhelmed to a place where you feel at peace with yourself, calm and secure. So we talk about all of that. Again, like I said to April, I don't teach you how to run away from the emotions. We learn how to accept them, how to use them for our good. And then I also teach you how to thrive while being triggered. If you're HSV, I promise you, you will be triggered all the time by your own internal body, by something in the environment, by something somebody does, or something somebody says. So teaching you what your triggers are, which is very different for each person. And what do you do when these triggers show up so that you don't be a hermit like I used to be? Uh, you know, because there's a big life out there for you to live. And I would love everyone to be able to live fully. And finally, how to thrive in relationships because HSPs are relational people. We might not want to be in a room with 100,000 people, but we can build really strong, safe, healthy relationships. I'm talking about work relationships, home relationships, all types of relationships, how to set those boundaries, what to say when people, you know, say things that just rub you the wrong way, and just how to feel secure when you're around people.

April Snow 43:02

Beautiful. What a great resource. I mean, we we will be triggered, it's true. And we do want to be in relationship. It's just finding the path.

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 43:12

Yes.

April Snow 43:12

And what better than having another HSP to guide us? Yes. Who gets it?

Ibinye Osibodu-Onyali 43:17

Yes.

April Snow 43:19

Oh, so beautiful. Thanks so much for joining me and Ivy for today's conversation. What I hope you remember is that your sensitivity is real, it's valid, and it's absolutely okay to show up however you need to. And for more support, schedule a coaching session with Ivy to learn how to prioritize your own needs, speak up for yourself, set clear boundaries, and become much more comfortable in your own skin. You'll find that link in the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated. For behind the scenes content and more HSP resources, you can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestories.com for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.